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How Australia became the world’s greatest lithium supplier

bbc.com

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Re: How Australia became the world’s greatest lithium supplier

#131

Post by llamaLord »

roenxi wrote: post #122

The issue with lithium is it is effectively illegal to process in most of the world that knows how to do it. The subtext in this article is that Australia is a major lithium producer ... because it has easy access to the Chinese refining pipeline which refines the cheap and dirty way. If it were practical to refine lithium in the cheap way we know how, then countries with large lithium reserves (US & Europe) would be…

As an Australian, you’re forgetting one really key part of the puzzle.

Australia is a FUCKING ENORMOUS lump of mineral rich dust. The country is literally tinted red when viewed from space because of all the iron in our dry, desolate, empty-ass country.

There is one, and I do mean ONE, advantage to being a developed western country that is also fucking empty and inhospitable.

All the NIMBY’s are atleast 1000km away from your mine…

You could put hundreds of open cut mines all over WA, SA, NT, and nobody would even notice because there’s fuckin-nuthin out there.

Re: How Australia became the world’s greatest lithium supplier

#132

Post by llamaLord »

gizajob wrote: post #28
hyperionplays wrote: post #20

Shame Australian's see little to no benefit, all of the profits are off shored and there are little royalties paid back to the Australian people.

But all Australians are free to go and earn $200,000pa working in the mines in WA...

Except nobody actually works in those mines, there’ they’re effectively entirely automated.

There were jobs around in the 2010’s during a mining “construction” boom, but once the mines were built 90% of the jobs went too.

Re: How Australia became the world’s greatest lithium supplier

#133

Post by roenxi »

llamaLord wrote: post #131
roenxi wrote: post #122

The issue with lithium is it is effectively illegal to process in most of the world that knows how to do it. The subtext in this article is that Australia is a major lithium producer ... because it has easy access to the Chinese refining pipeline which refines the cheap and dirty way. If it were practical to refine lithium in the cheap way we know how, then countries with large lithium reserves (US & Europe) would be…

As an Australian, you’re forgetting one really key part of the puzzle. Australia is a FUCKING ENORMOUS lump of mineral rich dust. The country is literally tinted red when viewed from space because of all the iron in our dry, desolate, empty-ass country. There is one, and I do mean ONE, advantage to being a developed western country that is also fucking empty and inhospitable. All the NIMBY’s are atleast 1000km away f…

We could, but that is a lot less economic. Open pit mines are for bulk commodities and if you put them in the middle of nowhere then the transport costs get extreme. It makes more sense to put them distant but proximate to an existing train line or city. Somewhere like the Pilbara is a bit of an exception because there are 300m high blocks of iron, so sure, we can afford to build a few new tracks.

And Europe/the US/Africa/Asia aren't exactly small places. All the continents are big and an open cut mine is actually pretty small compared to the amount of land we put aside for, say, farming. The Earth isn't short of spare earth.

Re: How Australia became the world’s greatest lithium supplier

#134

Post by olivermarks »

tuatoru wrote: post #130
olivermarks wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1 Ferrous metal blends with other materials are increasingly the main components of vehicles. MMC etc. Where body shops used to straighten collision damage on jigs to pull out damaged steel chassis, bodyshells etc the modern composites are very hard to repair, containing all sorts of materials including steel, alloys, plastics etc. They are also hard to recycle. 2 How old is that graphic? 3 Manners

"Ferrous metals" means steels of various kinds, or pure iron, which isn't used much these days. 65% is more than 5%. "Manners" in this forum means providing credible sources to back up your claims. If you have credible sources that contradict Transport Geography, supply them. 1. https://www.metalsupermarkets.com/what-is-a-ferrous-metal/

The image was from a 'book' published in 2022, so probably around 4-6 years old being generous as it is the 5th edition.

https://matmatch.com/resources/blog/advanced-high-strength-s...

AHSS is essentially steel at its core but is very hard to move once damaged, unlike 16 or 18 gauge pure stamped steel in an early 70's era car for example, that was superseded by the high strength low alloys (HSLA) in the late 1970's. If you hammer and dolly the older pure steels there will be a 'memory' of the original stamping it will reconform too. The newer HSLA alloys were much less malleable

It is amazing how fast this world has evolved in the last five years.

High strength 'steel' has a low alloying and carbon content to retain formability and weldability, with copper, titanium, vanadium, and niobium added for strengthening purposes. These are complex alloys that replaced the earlier HSLA and are both very hard to work and also to recycle.

Re: How Australia became the world’s greatest lithium supplier

#135

Post by aldonius »

kibwen wrote: post #82
0xffff2 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much of that pollution is coming out of the tail pipe vs. off of the brake pads and tires?

Keep in mind that EVs with their regenerative braking use their brake pads effectively never. Modern EV brake systems actually have to deliberately not use their regenerative braking once in a while in order to exercise the brake pads and make sure that they don't rust into uselessness from utter disuse.

And on the flip side, EVs tend to be heavier and therefore work their tyres even harder.

Re: How Australia became the world’s greatest lithium supplier

#136

Post by iancmceachern »

kibwen wrote: post #82
0xffff2 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much of that pollution is coming out of the tail pipe vs. off of the brake pads and tires?

Keep in mind that EVs with their regenerative braking use their brake pads effectively never. Modern EV brake systems actually have to deliberately not use their regenerative braking once in a while in order to exercise the brake pads and make sure that they don't rust into uselessness from utter disuse.

That tire dust though

Re: How Australia became the world’s greatest lithium supplier

#137

Post by 0xy »

consumer451 wrote: post #115
hyperionplays wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it got raided by successive governments and the royalties we charge are tiny relative to other nations. For example: Australian Gas consumers pay more to use natural gas in Australia, than people in Japan, using Australian LNG.

> For example: Australian Gas consumers pay more to use natural gas in Australia, than people in Japan, using Australian LNG. Would it be fair to call that blatant corruption, or could some argument be made that it is not?

Only if you can show a population dense country like Japan spends comparative amounts on infrastructure to supply the gas than a population sparse country like Australia.

In other words, only if you're lying is it corruption. Costs are not like for like, not even close. The gas itself is relatively cheap. The infrastructure and OpEx is not.

Re: How Australia became the world’s greatest lithium supplier

#138

Post by Nursie »

YeBanKo wrote: post #127
SnowHill9902 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does “blockchain” prevent a document from being falsified?

Blockchain allows you to to trace every transaction to its source and prevent double spend, if it is public. It does not have to be decentralized though, can be a closed system where every node has to go through a certification. I assume that a certified mining facility would be closely watched to ensure that the amount of lithium they mine matches what the sign for in transactions. And on the output, battery manufac…

Blockchains are not really of any use of an authority of any type can be identified. If it’s not going to be decentralised, then it doesn’t add anything but complexity.

Looks like somewhere else people will try to crobar it in.

Re: How Australia became the world’s greatest lithium supplier

#139

Post by ehnto »

llamaLord wrote: post #132
gizajob wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But all Australians are free to go and earn $200,000pa working in the mines in WA...

Except nobody actually works in those mines, there’ they’re effectively entirely automated. There were jobs around in the 2010’s during a mining “construction” boom, but once the mines were built 90% of the jobs went too.

Even the trains have been automated, which I assume has been historically difficult only because of unions and safety regulations. A bit easier to pull off in the remote outback I suspect.

Re: How Australia became the world’s greatest lithium supplier

#140

Post by ehnto »

jerojero wrote: post #125
elsonrodriguez wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lung cancer rates are higher near major roads due to air pollution from cars. Fossil fuel cars basically means every highway is a superfund site. We just don't talk about it. Given the choice between toxic waste at a mine and toxic waste in millions of homes, I'll take the mine.

You'll take the mine because you don't live near the mine. I think what the parent comment was really hinting at is the need to move towards a less car-dependent life. Of course, electrification is important, but it's not environmentally neutral in any way. It would be better if we had trains, strong public transport, walkable and cyclable cities rather than electric cars. I think that's kind of what Europe is doing…

We will all be dead before America becomes a city planning utopia. Not because it can't, there's just so much work involved to reconfigure everything. I believe if you fixed your zoning though, it would eventually gravitate towards that on its own as people flee suburbia for the more livable cities. That doesn't mean don't vote for it though, even small improvements to one location can improve livability.

Maybe think of EVs as a stop-gap because if you want clean air for millions in the next 30 years that is our best option. Even the famous Shinkansen took longer than that to build, and they had the benefit of a miracle economy, cities already configured for density and mixed zoning, and a government that could actually achieve things on a horizon longer than 3 years.

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