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How Australia became the world’s greatest lithium supplier

bbc.com

121–130 of 165 posts

Re: How Australia became the world’s greatest lithium supplier

#121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're thinking of a particular kind of battery with a flammable electrolyte. Other popular chemistries (LFP being the most obvious) aren't anywhere near as fire-prone. And of course, laptop batteries get worked -much- harder and treated to much harsher environments than any EV battery.

Teslas use LFP batteries https://youtu.be/J6eS6JzBn0k?t=77

That video is from January 2021. Tesla didn't start using LFP batteries in their non-Chinese vehicles before October 2021:

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/20/tesla-switching-to-lfp-batte...

https://tesla-cdn.thron.com/static/TWPKBV_TSLA_Q3_2021_Quart... (page 7)

Re: How Australia became the world’s greatest lithium supplier

#122
The issue with lithium is it is effectively illegal to process in most of the world that knows how to do it. The subtext in this article is that Australia is a major lithium producer ... because it has easy access to the Chinese refining pipeline which refines the cheap and dirty way.

If it were practical to refine lithium in the cheap way we know how, then countries with large lithium reserves (US & Europe) would be large lithium suppliers.

> The issues with lithium mining in Australia are no different to those experienced in the industry more broadly: open-cut mining carves deep scars in the landscape, often within ecosystems that are already under pressure

This is one of those "we just don't like living in an industrial society" complaints that NIMBYs come up with. It doesn't say anything and it is wilfully ignorant of the practicalities of maintaining the complex and raw-material-hungry world we live in. If you want products made using materials, you have to extract those materials. The environmental damage of open pit mining operations is nothing compared to the environmental damage and visual pollution of a large city. And you know what? Almost everyone chooses to live in a city. The costs are well worth it.

There are no alternatives. If you restrict open pit mining, you will not have products made of metal. We need industrial processes to maintain 21st century living standards.

Re: How Australia became the world’s greatest lithium supplier

#123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it got raided by successive governments and the royalties we charge are tiny relative to other nations. For example: Australian Gas consumers pay more to use natural gas in Australia, than people in Japan, using Australian LNG.

> For example: Australian Gas consumers pay more to use natural gas in Australia, than people in Japan, using Australian LNG. Would it be fair to call that blatant corruption, or could some argument be made that it is not?

https://www.thejuicemedia.com/derp/

Yes.

Re: How Australia became the world’s greatest lithium supplier

#124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.ntsb.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/NR20210113.as... https://youtu.be/tuVxwmnhqP4?t=385

I didn't watch the video, but neither this NTSB press release nor the longer report it points to contain the terms "LFP" or "phosphate."

Are you trying to claim the serious fire issues are solved by LFP batteries since 2022?

https://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20210328000109

Re: How Australia became the world’s greatest lithium supplier

#125

The flipside of electrification of vehicles is all the extra metal they need to mine, which is highly environmentally destructive. We don't even have the metal supplies to fully electrify car production, not even close, although I see South America is going to ramp up production substantially soon.

Lung cancer rates are higher near major roads due to air pollution from cars. Fossil fuel cars basically means every highway is a superfund site. We just don't talk about it. Given the choice between toxic waste at a mine and toxic waste in millions of homes, I'll take the mine.

You'll take the mine because you don't live near the mine.

I think what the parent comment was really hinting at is the need to move towards a less car-dependent life. Of course, electrification is important, but it's not environmentally neutral in any way.

It would be better if we had trains, strong public transport, walkable and cyclable cities rather than electric cars. I think that's kind of what Europe is doing and the USA should try to do similarly. Cars are extremely important for rural life but they're really unnecessary in cities... unless your cities are build as urban sprawls.

Re: How Australia became the world’s greatest lithium supplier

#126

Why lithium is not considered in the same category as fossil fuels? I mean, it is technically used as a fuel that you need to keep "energising" and it becomes "spent" after nth "energising'. Whereas e.g. diesel comes "pre-charged" and is "spent" after first use? I read conflicting articles which one is more environment friendly.

> it is technically used as a fuel that you need to keep "energising"

No. The lithium is the fuel tank, not the fuel.

Re: How Australia became the world’s greatest lithium supplier

#127

This is a surprisingly comprehensive and well-written article, worth reading. For example, the authors note that the majority of Australia's lithium ore is refined to metal in China, although there's a push for local Australian refining. For more details on the current state of lithium battery production globally, this is good: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-022-31850-y (Jul 2022) "Tracing the origin of lithi…

How does “blockchain” prevent a document from being falsified?

Blockchain allows you to to trace every transaction to its source and prevent double spend, if it is public. It does not have to be decentralized though, can be a closed system where every node has to go through a certification.

I assume that a certified mining facility would be closely watched to ensure that the amount of lithium they mine matches what the sign for in transactions. And on the output, battery manufacturers are required only buy lithium they can trace to a certified mine and sign every device the make, including how much lithium it contains.

If the ledger is public, anyone can verify that input=output + balance. It is not going to be decentralized, but it can be publicly verifiable.

Re: How Australia became the world’s greatest lithium supplier

#128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where in that link were LFP batteries mentioned? One of the advantages of LFP over nickel-manganese-cobalt chemistries is lower heat evolution when punctured or ruptured. Do you have other evidence for your claim of very high heat fires from LFP batteries?

https://www.ntsb.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/NR20210113.as... https://youtu.be/tuVxwmnhqP4?t=385

Tip for young players: "lithium ion" means NMC chemistry. If it's LFP, it will be called LFP.

Uncle Toby says lithium ion, so it's not LFP. He talks about a year old Tesla fire, so that was NMC, not LFP.

Re: How Australia became the world’s greatest lithium supplier

#129
post #7

Australia is like the Saudi Arabia of mining. Such a big continent with very few people. Politically stable and smart enough to exploit itself and keep most of the profits. The lucky country indeed.

I'm hoping this is sarcasm, or you are Gina Rinehart.

Re: How Australia became the world’s greatest lithium supplier

#130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's all just make up numbers when we could find them with 15 seconds' effort. https://transportgeography.org/contents/chapter4/transportat... Ferrous metals 65%.

1 Ferrous metal blends with other materials are increasingly the main components of vehicles. MMC etc. Where body shops used to straighten collision damage on jigs to pull out damaged steel chassis, bodyshells etc the modern composites are very hard to repair, containing all sorts of materials including steel, alloys, plastics etc. They are also hard to recycle. 2 How old is that graphic? 3 Manners

"Ferrous metals" means steels of various kinds, or pure iron, which isn't used much these days. 65% is more than 5%.

"Manners" in this forum means providing credible sources to back up your claims. If you have credible sources that contradict Transport Geography, supply them.

1. https://www.metalsupermarkets.com/what-is-a-ferrous-metal/

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