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FTX to file for U.S. bankruptcy, CEO resigns

reuters.com

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Re: FTX to file for U.S. bankruptcy, CEO resigns

#701

Post by thwayunion »

killerstorm wrote: post #652
hinkley wrote: post #537

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked on code that used a Merkle Tree before any of us had heard of a Merkle tree or this blockchain bullshit came around, so I never got starry eyed about any of this stuff. That project was in an environment where chain of custody is an established mechanism for ensuring public safety. Layering a web of trust over the top of that was something the users could mostly digest. Consumers can only use software signed…

A Block header includes a root hash of a Merkle tree of transactions. So yes, it is a tree, if you also consider the useful payload, not just block headers. Then e.g. in Ethereum there's also a Merkle tree of the entire state as well. > there's no distributed consensus Distributed consensus is necessary if you want high availability and replication for your Merkle tree. If data in your tree is important, you want to…

> If data in your tree is important, you want to replicate it, right?

Yes!

> You didn't implement it because it takes considerable effort.

I'd wager it's because he was smart enough to read the man page for rsync and didn't over-engineer a non-solution to a non-problem in his particular use-case.

Re: FTX to file for U.S. bankruptcy, CEO resigns

#702

Post by dist1ll »

HDThoreaun wrote: post #634
Mortiffer wrote: post #579

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FTX was a centralized exchange. Those who believe in trying to build an alternative financial system did not use centralized exchanges except perhaps for on-ramp off-ramp. Uniswap among others has been stable with very audited open code that prevents anyone from doing what FTX did. Just want to remind ppl to not put them in the same bucket.

You're always going to need a centralized ramp to convert crypto to fiat though. If everyone thinks they're scams crypto has a big problem.

Yeah, but the conversion happens very quickly. Deposit, trade, withdraw.

Unfortunately, people leave tons of money on exchanges, for long periods of time. That's the problem. That's what the majority of exchange users are doing.

Re: FTX to file for U.S. bankruptcy, CEO resigns

#703

Post by VHRanger »

null0pointer wrote: post #697
twblalock wrote: post #528

This has been a wonderful social experiment, enabling people who didn’t live in the 19th century to see what happens when banking and investing is treated like the wild west. Maybe something could have been different this time? In the end it wasn’t, and it proves the necessity of regulation and institutions. There aren’t very many other aspects of our society where we get to have that kind of experiment and find out…

This is pretty clearly not a failure of cryptocurrency. Bitcoin et al. are still chugging along just fine. This is, once again, a failure of a centralized business in which people placed way too much trust. I hope SBF, and other "crypto" company execs, are held accountable for misleading customers about their offerings. Specifically calling it crypto when it's not.

Bitcoin failed, though?

All the proposed usecases except speculation and censorship resistant wealth transfers (eg. getting money out of Russia) have been abandoned.

Re: FTX to file for U.S. bankruptcy, CEO resigns

#704

Post by skinnymuch »

rurp wrote: post #549
Animats wrote: post #389

"Voluntary Chapter 11" in Delaware. Figures. That gets them out from bankruptcy in the Bahamas, which is much tougher than US law. The Bahamas still has classic tough bankruptcy laws, where there's no debtor-in-possession reorganization. It's straight to liquidation, with a court-appointed receiver in charge. This should be, and may be, converted to a straight liquidation. Chapter 11 can be useful for restarting comp…

> We strongly advise against depositing Wait, withdrawls are completely frozen and the company is done for, but they are still accepting deposits?!

I don’t think it’s possible to stop someone from depositing something into a wallet/key. That’s an issue with things like doxxing or spreading humiliating media of someone. You can push anything via the protocols to any address.

Re: FTX to file for U.S. bankruptcy, CEO resigns

#705

Post by scoofy »

null0pointer wrote: post #697
twblalock wrote: post #528

This has been a wonderful social experiment, enabling people who didn’t live in the 19th century to see what happens when banking and investing is treated like the wild west. Maybe something could have been different this time? In the end it wasn’t, and it proves the necessity of regulation and institutions. There aren’t very many other aspects of our society where we get to have that kind of experiment and find out…

This is pretty clearly not a failure of cryptocurrency. Bitcoin et al. are still chugging along just fine. This is, once again, a failure of a centralized business in which people placed way too much trust. I hope SBF, and other "crypto" company execs, are held accountable for misleading customers about their offerings. Specifically calling it crypto when it's not.

This is good for Bitcoin.

Re: FTX to file for U.S. bankruptcy, CEO resigns

#706

Post by lazide »

adastra22 wrote: post #678
lazide wrote: post #621

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If by 'they thought they were honest and doing things properly' you think the same for Madoff, then oof. Actions and results matter. Intentions can easily be bullshit and delusion. If someone is committing multi-billion dollar fraud, there is a line that was crossed a LONG time ago.

I read him as saying they thought they were doing honest things.

I was referring to the same miscreants as the poster was.

It’s only plausible to a certain point that they were unknowingly bad actors. They’d have to willingly be deluding themselves.

No one commits multi-billion dollar fraud accidentally.

They’d have to turn a blind eye to something any reasonable person would consider a ‘are we the baddies’ moment. Or two. Or dozens.

As to if it’s documented? One can hope, but I’m not holding my breath. I’m sure there have been many shredder parties (or digital equivalents) happening in many places since the news broke.

Re: FTX to file for U.S. bankruptcy, CEO resigns

#707

Post by thwayunion »

nazgulnarsil wrote: post #699
thwayunion wrote: post #491

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> can we STOP the blind short-term speculation on the promise of extreme wealth I first played around with blockchain in 2011 or so and I still don't know what actual utility this technology is supposed to have. I have never -- never -- encountered a value-producing use case for cryptocurrency that can't be solved by either signed git commits or a SQL database. Around 2015 a lot of people I thought were smart enough…

>I have never -- never -- encountered a value-producing use case for cryptocurrency that can't be solved by either signed git commits or a SQL database. You have always --always-- lived in a high trust society with trustworthy institutions

I live in the USA.

I will concede your point if it means you'll agree that at the very least cryptocurrency is useless to people in the USA.

(Even as a hedge. My resiliency to societal collapse comes from the social relationships I maintain in my local community and the collection of skills and knowledge we collectively have, not my ability to flee to New Zealand and hope my digital tokens still have perceived value.)

Re: FTX to file for U.S. bankruptcy, CEO resigns

#708

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

null0pointer wrote: post #697
twblalock wrote: post #528

This has been a wonderful social experiment, enabling people who didn’t live in the 19th century to see what happens when banking and investing is treated like the wild west. Maybe something could have been different this time? In the end it wasn’t, and it proves the necessity of regulation and institutions. There aren’t very many other aspects of our society where we get to have that kind of experiment and find out…

This is pretty clearly not a failure of cryptocurrency. Bitcoin et al. are still chugging along just fine. This is, once again, a failure of a centralized business in which people placed way too much trust. I hope SBF, and other "crypto" company execs, are held accountable for misleading customers about their offerings. Specifically calling it crypto when it's not.

1. BTC has cratered 20% in the past couple days. I know, par for the course for crypto, but also a good example of why it doesn't share standard features of real currencies.

2. All the "not your keys, not your coins" mindless chanting misses the point. While true, a modern financial system depends on being able to have trust in financial institutions if you actually need to move money quickly. Years ago I went the "move everything to cold storage" route, and it was a major pain in the ass, not to mention slow and expensive every time you needed to move to an exchange to trade or convert to fiat. It's the equivalent of stuffing your money under your mattress - valid for emergency situations, but not for a currency you actually want to transact in.

Oh, and the reason hardly anyone actually stuffs money under their mattress any more is that we've built up institutions (e.g. FDIC insurance, SIPC insurance, and the associated regulations to provide this insurance) to reliably protect depositors.

Re: FTX to file for U.S. bankruptcy, CEO resigns

#709

Post by skinnymuch »

adastra22 wrote: post #678
lazide wrote: post #621

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If by 'they thought they were honest and doing things properly' you think the same for Madoff, then oof. Actions and results matter. Intentions can easily be bullshit and delusion. If someone is committing multi-billion dollar fraud, there is a line that was crossed a LONG time ago.

I read him as saying they thought they were doing honest things.

Yeah and the point is no one sane would seriously say Madoff thought he was being honest. They’re making an analogy between Madoff and SBF being similar/the same.

Re: FTX to file for U.S. bankruptcy, CEO resigns

#710

Post by bogota »

VHRanger wrote: post #703
null0pointer wrote: post #697

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is pretty clearly not a failure of cryptocurrency. Bitcoin et al. are still chugging along just fine. This is, once again, a failure of a centralized business in which people placed way too much trust. I hope SBF, and other "crypto" company execs, are held accountable for misleading customers about their offerings. Specifically calling it crypto when it's not.

Bitcoin failed, though? All the proposed usecases except speculation and censorship resistant wealth transfers (eg. getting money out of Russia) have been abandoned.

I used bitcoin to remit money to another country just yesterday.
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