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FTX to file for U.S. bankruptcy, CEO resigns

reuters.com

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Re: FTX to file for U.S. bankruptcy, CEO resigns

#671

Post by dsco »

twblalock wrote: post #528

This has been a wonderful social experiment, enabling people who didn’t live in the 19th century to see what happens when banking and investing is treated like the wild west. Maybe something could have been different this time? In the end it wasn’t, and it proves the necessity of regulation and institutions. There aren’t very many other aspects of our society where we get to have that kind of experiment and find out…

Institutions funded FTX - what are you on about with your very wordy but empty post?

Re: FTX to file for U.S. bankruptcy, CEO resigns

#672

Post by adastra22 »

Lonestar1440 wrote: post #641
everfree wrote: post #597

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see why crypto is incompatible with regulation and institutions. Crypto is a unit of account, not some magical lawless thing that's doomed to never have a regulation written about it. In fact, places like New York already have pretty strict regulations requiring specific licenses for crypto-related businesses. Crypto crises like these are in general due to regulation not having caught up yet, not because comp…

Once you accept the necessity of middlemen, known counterparties, and regulators; what's the point of Crypto?

Businesses operating as custodians should be subject to all the usual banking regulations. They are holding other people’s money.

But that’s not crypto, that’s just a crypto-related service.

Re: FTX to file for U.S. bankruptcy, CEO resigns

#674

Post by joosters »

JohnPrine wrote: post #662
fwip wrote: post #646

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like he forgot about the principle of diminishing returns. If you have $1B to your name, it's stupid to put it all on red, even if your expected return is positive.

Diminishing returns don't apply for SBF - his life's goal is to fund effective altruist charities, so each billion is as valuable as the last as long as there are good projects to fund. I don't think people are comprehending how tragic this whole situation is (acknowledging that it's SBF's fault). This collapse put the brakes on a powerful force for good, and lives that would have been saved won't anymore.

Well he failed miserably at that. If he had stuck with his original supposed $1 billion, he could have given almost all of it away and still lived a very comfortable life. As it stands now, his charitable foundation has pledged far less than $1 billion (at it remains to be seen just how much it pledged actually gets paid out).

Perhaps if he had spent more time donating money (his stated aim) rather than inventing convoluted financial structures (FTX has over 100 related companies!), he would have achieved more, and cost people a lot less.

Re: FTX to file for U.S. bankruptcy, CEO resigns

#675

Post by luckylion »

chx wrote: post #637
luckylion wrote: post #580

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fast, cheap money transfer (theoretically) not requiring trust in any middle man, cutting out bank's control, i.e. "digital cash". I don't know if it's revolutionary, but it has a lot of potential and is great when it works.

Here are the steps you need to take to move money with crypto"currency": 1. Establish a presence at an exchange (you need to do this only once) 2. The receiver needs to establish presence at their exchange (every receiver of yours need to do this) 3. Transfer money to the exchange 4. Buy coins and move them and the receiver exchanges back them to money 5. The receiver needs to move money from the exchange to their ba…

That includes steps that you shouldn't. I.e. to transfer money via bank, I wouldn't include "get a job to earn some money".

You don't want to transfer money, you want to transfer value. If the recipient can use the crypto currency to buy something else, they don't need an exchange.

Here's my very simple setup: have a bunch of mbtc sit in a wallet. Open the wallet. Insert the password. Insert address and amount. Insert the password again. Done.

I can do the same with a bank, but it takes much longer (i.e. days instead of seconds or minutes) unless the recipient is at the same bank, or I pay extra and they're in the same network, and I need to rely on the bank to allow my payment. Want to buy porn, drugs, or want to gamble your hard earned money away? Good luck using your VISA or PayPal for that.

There's plenty of potential in crypto, it doesn't need to replace any and all usecases of banking to be useful.

Re: FTX to file for U.S. bankruptcy, CEO resigns

#676

Post by WontGetFooled »

HDThoreaun wrote: post #634
Mortiffer wrote: post #579

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FTX was a centralized exchange. Those who believe in trying to build an alternative financial system did not use centralized exchanges except perhaps for on-ramp off-ramp. Uniswap among others has been stable with very audited open code that prevents anyone from doing what FTX did. Just want to remind ppl to not put them in the same bucket.

You're always going to need a centralized ramp to convert crypto to fiat though. If everyone thinks they're scams crypto has a big problem.

You can "buy cash" right now in amount from $100 to $1M on most d-web exchanges. Decentralized versions like Open Bazaar have worked for years just no one uses them so its more expensive and less choice.

Decentralized on/off ramps have existed for a LONG time and the fist was a key reason Bitcoin Core (BTC) broke away from the Bitcoin roadmap and became more of an "alt-coin" than the Bitcon we started with. Many think "SegWit" was a hack desigend to inject malicious code into Bitcoin Core to make these types of decentralized exchanges more difficult but then Vitalik just said fuck the US Government and came out with Ethereum.

Re: FTX to file for U.S. bankruptcy, CEO resigns

#677

Post by kgwgk »

everfree wrote: post #607
tasubotadas wrote: post #555

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does this need to be regulated? We already have banks for that. And it's not like regulation saved them from being able to become insolvent.

> it's not like regulation saved them from being able to become insolvent. It may have, in a way. It's too early to tell, but it's possible that FTX's USA-based corporation ("FTX US") is still solvent. I believe it's the Bahamas-based entity that's in bankruptcy - the one that's in an offshore haven not subject to US regulations. Edit: Looks like FTX US is bankrupt too, but still it may or may not be solvent.

FTX US is included in the bankruptcy proceedings.

Re: FTX to file for U.S. bankruptcy, CEO resigns

#678

Post by adastra22 »

lazide wrote: post #621
AYBABTME wrote: post #535

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they thought they were honest and doing things properly, and didn't realize that their holding of FTT was making them as bad as the other frauds before. I think these ouroboros are complex enough that even main players don't necessarily understand the position they've put themselves in.

If by 'they thought they were honest and doing things properly' you think the same for Madoff, then oof. Actions and results matter. Intentions can easily be bullshit and delusion. If someone is committing multi-billion dollar fraud, there is a line that was crossed a LONG time ago.

I read him as saying they thought they were doing honest things.

Re: FTX to file for U.S. bankruptcy, CEO resigns

#679

Post by xisthesqrtof9 »

paxys wrote: post #447
shorthistory wrote: post #423

Can anyone speculate what Bankman-Fried's exit plan was? Was this a fraud that got out of control, or premeditated? If it was premeditated, what was the exit plan? Did he expect to be able to gamble with customer funds indefinitely? Were the Effective Altruism intimations genuine? Why, if Alameda was a market maker, and they therefore presumably have some form of insight into the markets, did they then decide to take…

Every serial gambler in the world thinks that they are just temporarily in the red and one big break away from winning big. They just need to invest a little bit more.

This is literally the plot of Uncut Gems.

Re: FTX to file for U.S. bankruptcy, CEO resigns

#680

Post by coffeebeqn »

JohnPrine wrote: post #662
fwip wrote: post #646

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like he forgot about the principle of diminishing returns. If you have $1B to your name, it's stupid to put it all on red, even if your expected return is positive.

Diminishing returns don't apply for SBF - his life's goal is to fund effective altruist charities, so each billion is as valuable as the last as long as there are good projects to fund. I don't think people are comprehending how tragic this whole situation is (acknowledging that it's SBF's fault). This collapse put the brakes on a powerful force for good, and lives that would have been saved won't anymore.

It’s only ”good” if you believe the ends justify any means. What about FTX customers? People aren’t pawns you can play with for your “greater cause”
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