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How Australia became the world’s greatest lithium supplier

bbc.com

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Re: How Australia became the world’s greatest lithium supplier

#81

Post by asdff »

kortilla wrote: post #52
olivermarks wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chile is already being ruined. Pay close attention to the lithium triangle as it expands and the state the planet is left in after being mined https://www.euronews.com/green/2022/02/01/south-america-s-li... Why is lithium extraction bad for the environment? Any type of resource extraction is harmful to the planet. This is because removing these raw materials can result in soil degradation, water shortages, biodiversi…

> Why is lithium extraction bad for the environment? Any type of resource extraction is harmful to the planet. This is because removing these raw materials can result in soil degradation, water shortages, biodiversity loss, damage to ecosystem functions and an increase in global warming. Are you trying to argue that using fossil fuels is better for the environment? It’s not clear if you’re using this opportunity to c…

If we develop a proper biofuel then we are going to wish we still had carbon powered cars imo. The issue with carbon fuel is that it gets put into the atmosphere and not recaptured, thus warming the planet and disturbing ecology. Once a method is used to capture this carbon organically, however, then carbon just becomes a transient used delivery device and a store for solar energy that powers the underlying photosynthesis to restructure atmospheric carbon into solids. A tree trunk or a pound of green algae becomes a fungible unit of energy. Everything changes.

Re: How Australia became the world’s greatest lithium supplier

#82

Post by kibwen »

0xffff2 wrote: post #65
elsonrodriguez wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lung cancer rates are higher near major roads due to air pollution from cars. Fossil fuel cars basically means every highway is a superfund site. We just don't talk about it. Given the choice between toxic waste at a mine and toxic waste in millions of homes, I'll take the mine.

How much of that pollution is coming out of the tail pipe vs. off of the brake pads and tires?

Keep in mind that EVs with their regenerative braking use their brake pads effectively never. Modern EV brake systems actually have to deliberately not use their regenerative braking once in a while in order to exercise the brake pads and make sure that they don't rust into uselessness from utter disuse.

Re: How Australia became the world’s greatest lithium supplier

#83

Post by devoutsalsa »

rootusrootus wrote: post #58
newyankee wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

India does not share land border with Afghanistan , although Afg and Indian people apparently share warm relations (not Taliban)

> India does not share land border with Afghanistan I'm guessing India would claim that it does. Pakistan would argue otherwise.

Reading about the line of control that splits Kashmir is pretty interesting.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karachi_Agreement

Re: How Australia became the world’s greatest lithium supplier

#84

Post by lob_it »

nawgz wrote: post #66
kortilla wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it isn’t. Where does such a statement even come from? That’s like saying the goal of socialism is to starve everyone.

You're the one making a non-sequitur. Capitalism is an ideology about maximizing profits. You can make a lot more profit if you externalize all your costs. "Privatize the profits, socialize the losses" is a way of saying that corporations have a lot of magical legal devices that let them avoid responsibility for externalities they themselves created once the revenue stream is no longer flowing. Can't you think of tim…

A countryman between two lawyers is like a fish between two cats.

Benjamin Franklin (with a hint of Einstein) :p

Re: How Australia became the world’s greatest lithium supplier

#85

Post by acchow »

samatman wrote: post #11

I wish Australia the best of luck in escaping the resource curse, by moving up the value chain. Relative to China. I'd like this post to be more sarcastic than it is, really, I would.

> resource curse

The service sector makes up 62% of the Australian economy.

Re: How Australia became the world’s greatest lithium supplier

#86

Post by bombcar »

jeffbee wrote: post #73
nawgz wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't it seem likely the cost of the material directly relates to the size and difficulty of creating said hole in the ground?

No, that doesn't seem likely to me at all. Lithium prices are high because the industry is not very well developed and the demand is skyrocketing. Borax is co-located with lithium deposits (in some places) and is extracted by a similar process at similar scales and it costs 100x less than lithium. And for some reason nobody looks at the gigantic land scar at a borax mine and starts screaming about the environmental c…

Open pit mines are huge and the biggest ones are for boring things like iron and copper: https://www.mpirecruitment.au/news/the-worlds-deepest-bigges...

Re: How Australia became the world’s greatest lithium supplier

#87

Post by olivermarks »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #55
olivermarks wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank God these two electric vehicles didn't catch fire and set the gas lines on fire when they crashed this week https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Tesla-Prius-crash-int...

Is a Prius considered an electric car now? But a Prius and a Tesla crashing into a horn sounds like something that would only happen in SF.

Prius's don't burn as hot as full BEVs but if their batteries are compromised in a wreck it gets pretty fiery https://abc7.com/pacific-coast-highway-car-fire-pch/1051638/

Re: How Australia became the world’s greatest lithium supplier

#88

Post by someweirdperson »

olivermarks wrote: post #15
someweirdperson wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and associated high voltage electrocution. I am not aware of any cars using high voltage [0] yet. But of course getting zapped by low voltage is bad enough. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_voltage

https://www.ntsb.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/NR20210113.as... Risks to Emergency Responders from High-Voltage, Lithium-Ion Battery Fires Addressed in Safety Report Actions sought by the NTSB in the four safety recommendations issued Wednesday include: Factoring the availability of a manufacturer’s emergency response guide, and its adherence to International Organization for Standardization standard 17840 and SAE In…

SAE is using terms differently, abusing, re-defining terms that have been in use for a century. This mixed use of the same word for different things can be extremely dangerous.

Re: How Australia became the world’s greatest lithium supplier

#89

Post by Grimburger »

spoonalious wrote: post #17
dalyons wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mmm idk about keeping most of the profits - we could have done so much more in that regard over the last two decades. Missed opportunity to create something like Norway’s national oil wealth fund. Instead of offshoring most of the gains.

There is one: https://www.futurefund.gov.au/

The future fund exists solely to pay public servant pensions and even then by it's own account it won't be enough to fund expected liabilities, the average person will never see a cent of it.

Re: How Australia became the world’s greatest lithium supplier

#90

Post by olivermarks »

rootusrootus wrote: post #63
olivermarks wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The recycling processes and costs are astronomical and environmentally damaging. https://www.solarreviews.com/blog/are-lithium-ion-batteries-... As lithium batteries degrade they become more unstable and fire prone. I'm sure you're familiar with what happens to your laptop battery as it ages - shorter and shorter life, swelling etc.

You're thinking of a particular kind of battery with a flammable electrolyte. Other popular chemistries (LFP being the most obvious) aren't anywhere near as fire-prone. And of course, laptop batteries get worked -much- harder and treated to much harsher environments than any EV battery.

Teslas use LFP batteries

https://youtu.be/J6eS6JzBn0k?t=77

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