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How Australia became the world’s greatest lithium supplier

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71–80 of 165 posts

Re: How Australia became the world’s greatest lithium supplier

#71

Shame Australian's see little to no benefit, all of the profits are off shored and there are little royalties paid back to the Australian people.

It's not like they're giving the lithium away for free?

After you account for the environmental costs, they are probably paying people to remove it from their country

Re: How Australia became the world’s greatest lithium supplier

#72

The flipside of electrification of vehicles is all the extra metal they need to mine, which is highly environmentally destructive. We don't even have the metal supplies to fully electrify car production, not even close, although I see South America is going to ramp up production substantially soon.

Lung cancer rates are higher near major roads due to air pollution from cars. Fossil fuel cars basically means every highway is a superfund site. We just don't talk about it. Given the choice between toxic waste at a mine and toxic waste in millions of homes, I'll take the mine.

Most of that localized pollution comes from stuff like tire dust which is increased as we buy new heavier vehicles to do the same old getting around. The big win with fuel air quality was the move away from leaded gas and the clean air act, for decades now the major sources of pollution from a car have not been from the tailpipe.

Re: How Australia became the world’s greatest lithium supplier

#73
post #69
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought we are talking about the sizes of holes in the ground, not the cost.

Doesn't it seem likely the cost of the material directly relates to the size and difficulty of creating said hole in the ground?

No, that doesn't seem likely to me at all. Lithium prices are high because the industry is not very well developed and the demand is skyrocketing. Borax is co-located with lithium deposits (in some places) and is extracted by a similar process at similar scales and it costs 100x less than lithium. And for some reason nobody looks at the gigantic land scar at a borax mine and starts screaming about the environmental cost, because there's no oil billionaire astroturf fund dedicated to whining about boron.

Re: How Australia became the world’s greatest lithium supplier

#74

The flipside of electrification of vehicles is all the extra metal they need to mine, which is highly environmentally destructive. We don't even have the metal supplies to fully electrify car production, not even close, although I see South America is going to ramp up production substantially soon.

> We don't even have the metal supplies to fully electrify car production,

Okay, I need to say that you are not even wrong. Yep, I am slightly irritated on this blatantly false claim that has started popping up. If you think your claim has any merit, could you please provid the metal that you think we are lacking, estimat the amount needed and compare that amoun to the amount in earth's crust. If you get anything but infinitesmally small needs compared to what here is, please explain why that metal can't be replaced.

Re: How Australia became the world’s greatest lithium supplier

#75
post #36
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It looks like insufficient bonds and bankruptcy just shifted cost burdens for cleanup to government. That's the goal of capitalism, privitise the profits, socialise the losses.

I actually only looked at north america, knowing that it happens in every country that mines. Capitalism is not the scapegoat. https://e360.yale.edu/features/china-wrestles-with-the-toxic... The psuedo-environmentalists getting played like a 2-bit....crypto investor (not my 1st word choice, but still relevant) is funny though :p

Capitalism exists in every country today. You would not have chinese billionaires today if they were not a capitalistic country. They are socialist in almost name only these days; they are clearly not interested in redistributing wealth or favoring the health of the collective over the wealth of the elite. IMO there aren't many great examples of socialist governments, since many of the historical examples we've seen have been from a powerful elite using the mass appeal of the socialist message solely to put themselves in charge of an authoritarian state and use that position to further their own personal interests, versus to focus on collective benefits.

Re: How Australia became the world’s greatest lithium supplier

#76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Afghanistan is landlocked. To its north is Russia. To its east is China. To its south are Pakistan and India. And to its west is Iran. Fun neighborhood. Nothing could go wrong with the above countries fighting for their share of Afghanistan's mineral resources.

>Afghanistan is landlocked Which is not that great if you intend to export raw bulk goods (e.g. ore). You really want to have ports for that. The extra few percent efficiency of ship vs rail makes a huge difference because margin is so thin.

One of its neighbors will build out rail lines to their borders so they can take the position of lucrative refiner and exporter of a massive lithium reserve that only their infrastructure has good access to.

Re: How Australia became the world’s greatest lithium supplier

#77

I wish Australia the best of luck in escaping the resource curse, by moving up the value chain. Relative to China. I'd like this post to be more sarcastic than it is, really, I would.

It’s not a uniquely Australian issue. India also exports a lot of iron ore to China to be made into steel and sold back. This was also how imperialism was funded - take raw materials (cotton) and sell back finished goods (clothes).

Re: How Australia became the world’s greatest lithium supplier

#78
post #7

Australia is like the Saudi Arabia of mining. Such a big continent with very few people. Politically stable and smart enough to exploit itself and keep most of the profits. The lucky country indeed.

The true quote that coined that term is

Australia is a lucky country run mainly by second rate people who share its luck. It lives on other people's ideas, and, although its ordinary people are adaptable, most of its leaders (in all fields) so lack curiosity about the events that surround them that they are often taken by surprise.

Maybe we’re a bit better now (particularly after the last election) but it doesn’t really mean what everyone thinks it means. Basically, historically, we have failed upwards. Still, there are very few places I’d desire to live in

Re: How Australia became the world’s greatest lithium supplier

#79

The flipside of electrification of vehicles is all the extra metal they need to mine, which is highly environmentally destructive. We don't even have the metal supplies to fully electrify car production, not even close, although I see South America is going to ramp up production substantially soon.

Lung cancer rates are higher near major roads due to air pollution from cars. Fossil fuel cars basically means every highway is a superfund site. We just don't talk about it. Given the choice between toxic waste at a mine and toxic waste in millions of homes, I'll take the mine.

It’s a classic false dichotomy. There are plenty of options in between - from plug-in hybrids to funding public transit. In my ideal world, I’ll drive a sports hybrid for fun and take a well maintained public transport to work.

Re: How Australia became the world’s greatest lithium supplier

#80

Why lithium is not considered in the same category as fossil fuels? I mean, it is technically used as a fuel that you need to keep "energising" and it becomes "spent" after nth "energising'. Whereas e.g. diesel comes "pre-charged" and is "spent" after first use? I read conflicting articles which one is more environment friendly.

Lithium car batteries can be cycled 1500-2000 times. Fossil fuels get 1 cycle. 3 orders of magnitude is a categorical difference. [1] https://www.midtronics.com/blog/do-electric-car-ev-batteries...

Thats just because we don't care about reusing spent carbon. If we wanted to sequester all carbon into trees that we use again for fuel, for example, you can cycle atoms of carbon infinitely, and therefore power your vehicle purely from the sunlight energy that structures the chemistry of your woody carbon fuel without needing to build and replace solar panels every few decades.
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