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How Australia became the world’s greatest lithium supplier

bbc.com

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Re: How Australia became the world’s greatest lithium supplier

#51

Post by throwanapple »

it_citizen wrote: post #45
Synaesthesia wrote: post #2

The flipside of electrification of vehicles is all the extra metal they need to mine, which is highly environmentally destructive. We don't even have the metal supplies to fully electrify car production, not even close, although I see South America is going to ramp up production substantially soon.

Do you have a reliable source for the lack of supply? Ideally with a detailed breakdown for each potentially problematic material. I keep seeing claims that go both way on that matter. But none were backed by serious research.

I came across this before:

- The Mining of Minerals and the Limits to Growth (https://tupa.gtk.fi/raportti/arkisto/16_2021.pdf)

Re: How Australia became the world’s greatest lithium supplier

#52

Post by kortilla »

olivermarks wrote: post #23
AnotherGoodName wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The alternative is gas. 100x more energy dense than lithium and it hasn't been great for the environment to say the least.

Chile is already being ruined. Pay close attention to the lithium triangle as it expands and the state the planet is left in after being mined https://www.euronews.com/green/2022/02/01/south-america-s-li... Why is lithium extraction bad for the environment? Any type of resource extraction is harmful to the planet. This is because removing these raw materials can result in soil degradation, water shortages, biodiversi…

> Why is lithium extraction bad for the environment? Any type of resource extraction is harmful to the planet. This is because removing these raw materials can result in soil degradation, water shortages, biodiversity loss, damage to ecosystem functions and an increase in global warming.

Are you trying to argue that using fossil fuels is better for the environment? It’s not clear if you’re using this opportunity to complain about mining in general or if you’re arguing that we are better off with petrol cars.

Re: How Australia became the world’s greatest lithium supplier

#53

Post by sophacles »

kortilla wrote: post #47
iso1631 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It looks like insufficient bonds and bankruptcy just shifted cost burdens for cleanup to government. That's the goal of capitalism, privitise the profits, socialise the losses.

No it isn’t. Where does such a statement even come from? That’s like saying the goal of socialism is to starve everyone.

In capitalism, attempts to change the status quo are always met with "but this will hurt profits!"

In socialism, attempts to change the status quo are not met with "but fewer people will starve this way"

Whether or not the GP is correct, it's silly to feign ignorance of how this idea could come about.

Re: How Australia became the world’s greatest lithium supplier

#54

Post by keewee7 »

Synaesthesia wrote: post #2

The flipside of electrification of vehicles is all the extra metal they need to mine, which is highly environmentally destructive. We don't even have the metal supplies to fully electrify car production, not even close, although I see South America is going to ramp up production substantially soon.

>highly environmentally destructive

Is there any reliable information on this?

Re: How Australia became the world’s greatest lithium supplier

#55

Post by seanmcdirmid »

olivermarks wrote: post #27
olivermarks wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.ntsb.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/NR20210113.as... Risks to Emergency Responders from High-Voltage, Lithium-Ion Battery Fires Addressed in Safety Report Actions sought by the NTSB in the four safety recommendations issued Wednesday include: Factoring the availability of a manufacturer’s emergency response guide, and its adherence to International Organization for Standardization standard 17840 and SAE In…

Thank God these two electric vehicles didn't catch fire and set the gas lines on fire when they crashed this week https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Tesla-Prius-crash-int...

Is a Prius considered an electric car now? But a Prius and a Tesla crashing into a horn sounds like something that would only happen in SF.

Re: How Australia became the world’s greatest lithium supplier

#57

Post by cscharenberg »

it_citizen wrote: post #45
Synaesthesia wrote: post #2

The flipside of electrification of vehicles is all the extra metal they need to mine, which is highly environmentally destructive. We don't even have the metal supplies to fully electrify car production, not even close, although I see South America is going to ramp up production substantially soon.

Do you have a reliable source for the lack of supply? Ideally with a detailed breakdown for each potentially problematic material. I keep seeing claims that go both way on that matter. But none were backed by serious research.

In 8th grade I read a book on Zinc and it projected the world's supply would run out by ~1985. The book was published in like 1970 and I was reading it in 1994. Since then I've had a big of skepticism of "it's running out" when it comes to raw industrial materials.

Re: How Australia became the world’s greatest lithium supplier

#58

Post by rootusrootus »

newyankee wrote: post #19
Victerius wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Afghanistan is landlocked. To its north is Russia. To its east is China. To its south are Pakistan and India. And to its west is Iran. Fun neighborhood. Nothing could go wrong with the above countries fighting for their share of Afghanistan's mineral resources.

India does not share land border with Afghanistan , although Afg and Indian people apparently share warm relations (not Taliban)

> India does not share land border with Afghanistan

I'm guessing India would claim that it does. Pakistan would argue otherwise.

Re: How Australia became the world’s greatest lithium supplier

#59

Post by rootusrootus »

advisedwang wrote: post #46
varispeed wrote: post #34

Why lithium is not considered in the same category as fossil fuels? I mean, it is technically used as a fuel that you need to keep "energising" and it becomes "spent" after nth "energising'. Whereas e.g. diesel comes "pre-charged" and is "spent" after first use? I read conflicting articles which one is more environment friendly.

Lithium car batteries can be cycled 1500-2000 times. Fossil fuels get 1 cycle. 3 orders of magnitude is a categorical difference. [1] https://www.midtronics.com/blog/do-electric-car-ev-batteries...

And then when you're done, the lithium in the battery is recycled into a new one.

Re: How Australia became the world’s greatest lithium supplier

#60

Post by rootusrootus »

olivermarks wrote: post #5

Rare earth mineral and lithium extraction is going to be the greatest disaster the world has ever seen because ocean floors will be plundered - the damage to the planet whether at sea or on land will be unprecedented. It is surreal how naive people are about both this plus the huge lithium batteries high temperature fire risks and associated high voltage electrocution. There is a reason we went from high pressure ste…

> There is a reason we went from high pressure steam power to a lower pressure oil and gas based economy after the Victorian era.

First, steam is not a fuel. Second, where did you get the idea that steam pressure is higher than what we see with oil and gas fueled machines?

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