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How Australia became the world’s greatest lithium supplier

bbc.com

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Re: How Australia became the world’s greatest lithium supplier

#21

Post by hyperionplays »

spoonalious wrote: post #17
dalyons wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mmm idk about keeping most of the profits - we could have done so much more in that regard over the last two decades. Missed opportunity to create something like Norway’s national oil wealth fund. Instead of offshoring most of the gains.

There is one: https://www.futurefund.gov.au/

it got raided by successive governments and the royalties we charge are tiny relative to other nations.

For example: Australian Gas consumers pay more to use natural gas in Australia, than people in Japan, using Australian LNG.

Re: How Australia became the world’s greatest lithium supplier

#22

Post by andrewmutz »

Synaesthesia wrote: post #2

The flipside of electrification of vehicles is all the extra metal they need to mine, which is highly environmentally destructive. We don't even have the metal supplies to fully electrify car production, not even close, although I see South America is going to ramp up production substantially soon.

> The flipside of electrification of vehicles is all the extra metal they need to mine, which is highly environmentally destructive.

The environmental destruction of climate change is almost certainly worse

Re: How Australia became the world’s greatest lithium supplier

#23

Post by olivermarks »

AnotherGoodName wrote: post #13
olivermarks wrote: post #5

Rare earth mineral and lithium extraction is going to be the greatest disaster the world has ever seen because ocean floors will be plundered - the damage to the planet whether at sea or on land will be unprecedented. It is surreal how naive people are about both this plus the huge lithium batteries high temperature fire risks and associated high voltage electrocution. There is a reason we went from high pressure ste…

The alternative is gas. 100x more energy dense than lithium and it hasn't been great for the environment to say the least.

Chile is already being ruined. Pay close attention to the lithium triangle as it expands and the state the planet is left in after being mined

https://www.euronews.com/green/2022/02/01/south-america-s-li...

Why is lithium extraction bad for the environment? Any type of resource extraction is harmful to the planet. This is because removing these raw materials can result in soil degradation, water shortages, biodiversity loss, damage to ecosystem functions and an increase in global warming.

But when we think of extraction, we think of fossil fuels like coal and gas. Unfortunately, lithium also falls under the same umbrella, despite paving the way for an electric future.. Lithium can be described as the non-renewable mineral that makes renewable energy possible - often touted as the next oil.

Re: How Australia became the world’s greatest lithium supplier

#24

Post by Synaesthesia »

Workaccount2 wrote: post #6
Synaesthesia wrote: post #2

The flipside of electrification of vehicles is all the extra metal they need to mine, which is highly environmentally destructive. We don't even have the metal supplies to fully electrify car production, not even close, although I see South America is going to ramp up production substantially soon.

Localised environmental destruction is such a pittance compared to global environmental catastrophe that its comical people even bring it up.

But it's not an either/or. The mining and transport of metals also releases carbon dioxide.

To give an example every day I see convoys of trucks coming from Zambia to South African ports. These should be transported by train!

The solution is smaller, more efficient cars, electric bikes, public transport and things like that, not expensive 3 ton Tesla cars.

Re: How Australia became the world’s greatest lithium supplier

#25

Post by antihero »

AnotherGoodName wrote: post #13
olivermarks wrote: post #5

Rare earth mineral and lithium extraction is going to be the greatest disaster the world has ever seen because ocean floors will be plundered - the damage to the planet whether at sea or on land will be unprecedented. It is surreal how naive people are about both this plus the huge lithium batteries high temperature fire risks and associated high voltage electrocution. There is a reason we went from high pressure ste…

The alternative is gas. 100x more energy dense than lithium and it hasn't been great for the environment to say the least.

Or renewables and mass transit

Re: How Australia became the world’s greatest lithium supplier

#26

Post by lob_it »

Workaccount2 wrote: post #6
Synaesthesia wrote: post #2

The flipside of electrification of vehicles is all the extra metal they need to mine, which is highly environmentally destructive. We don't even have the metal supplies to fully electrify car production, not even close, although I see South America is going to ramp up production substantially soon.

Localised environmental destruction is such a pittance compared to global environmental catastrophe that its comical people even bring it up.

Abandonded mines (with the environmental carelessness) and the coming revelation of abandoned oil/gas operations leaking greenhouse gases is just a slice of history on repeat.

https://science.howstuffworks.com/engineering/structural/aba...

It looks like insufficient bonds and bankruptcy just shifted cost burdens for cleanup to government.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/cleaning-abandoned-coal-mi...

https://apnews.com/article/business-mountains-environment-an...

Most of the issues with abandonded mines can be confirmed in several countries, but the profits from pump and dump do afford positive GDP (superfund cleanups, etc).

The ROI while in operation keeps it going and keeps the "we need renewables now" crowd focused on (someone elses) goal(s) :)

The oil and gas industries have already started transfering ownership to smaller companies to bypass obligations, so the cycle continues, with new lithium mining just coming on the heels of two other unresolved climate catastrophes.

Re: How Australia became the world’s greatest lithium supplier

#27

Post by olivermarks »

olivermarks wrote: post #15
someweirdperson wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and associated high voltage electrocution. I am not aware of any cars using high voltage [0] yet. But of course getting zapped by low voltage is bad enough. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_voltage

https://www.ntsb.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/NR20210113.as... Risks to Emergency Responders from High-Voltage, Lithium-Ion Battery Fires Addressed in Safety Report Actions sought by the NTSB in the four safety recommendations issued Wednesday include: Factoring the availability of a manufacturer’s emergency response guide, and its adherence to International Organization for Standardization standard 17840 and SAE In…

Thank God these two electric vehicles didn't catch fire and set the gas lines on fire when they crashed this week

https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Tesla-Prius-crash-int...

Re: How Australia became the world’s greatest lithium supplier

#28

Post by gizajob »

hyperionplays wrote: post #20

Shame Australian's see little to no benefit, all of the profits are off shored and there are little royalties paid back to the Australian people.

But all Australians are free to go and earn $200,000pa working in the mines in WA...

Re: How Australia became the world’s greatest lithium supplier

#29

Post by jeffbee »

Synaesthesia wrote: post #2

The flipside of electrification of vehicles is all the extra metal they need to mine, which is highly environmentally destructive. We don't even have the metal supplies to fully electrify car production, not even close, although I see South America is going to ramp up production substantially soon.

If you think 10kg of lithium in a Tesla is a lot of extraction, you're never going to believe how much steel and aluminum is in a car.

Re: How Australia became the world’s greatest lithium supplier

#30

Post by elsonrodriguez »

Synaesthesia wrote: post #2

The flipside of electrification of vehicles is all the extra metal they need to mine, which is highly environmentally destructive. We don't even have the metal supplies to fully electrify car production, not even close, although I see South America is going to ramp up production substantially soon.

Lung cancer rates are higher near major roads due to air pollution from cars. Fossil fuel cars basically means every highway is a superfund site. We just don't talk about it.

Given the choice between toxic waste at a mine and toxic waste in millions of homes, I'll take the mine.

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