Survey of workers’ views on salary transparency • Hacker News Board

Re: Survey of workers’ views on salary transparency

#191

Post by joenot443 » Fri, Nov 11, 2022, 2:11 PM UTC

butterNaN wrote: post #183

nathias wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

for socialism (which is the ethos of the statement) of course its a third party that determines your needs and any third party has a conflict

It is not "of course" a third party at all. Socialism is not "when the government does stuff".

In any real-world application of socialism I've seen, it is indeed the government deciding how much one is given. I can't think of any implementation where the government asks the citizen how large of a slice of the pie they'd like.

I'm happy to be proved wrong, and maybe someday there'll be a successful communist state, but until then I look to history.

Re: Survey of workers’ views on salary transparency

#192

Post by madeofpalk » Fri, Nov 11, 2022, 2:12 PM UTC

0xRusty wrote: post #102

It's not easy for people promoted into manager roles either. I'm a new manager who the first time is now exposed to salary details of my, now direct reports, former co-workers. For the past couple of weeks I've been walking around thinking "how the hell does he make that much?! When I was at that level of experience I was paid $40k less". It's really affecting me to be honest. I'm seeing people in different light and…

The best managers I've ever had have always felt like they were genuine advocates for me towards the rest of the business. To push to pay me more, promote me, and share my concerns and other thoughts to the rest of the company.

It doesn't sound like you're a great advocate for your reports.

Re: Survey of workers’ views on salary transparency

#193

Post by robertlagrant » Fri, Nov 11, 2022, 2:12 PM UTC

zarzavat wrote: post #103

mjburgess wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you could pay someone in CapitalCity as much as SmallTown, a business would. It doesnt pay more because of some middle-manager's sense of fairness. Rather, no one would work for you in CapitalCity at SmallTown salaries. (One of the reasons is the higher cost of living, but that isnt what keeps the salary high, it's that there's no labour supply at SmallTown salaries.)

This is all a distinction without a difference. Salaries follow the labor market, which follows the cost of living. The cost of living is different in different places, because of differences in the labor market (demand side) or because of geographical reasons (supply side).

Salaries don't just (or even) follow the labour market or the cost of living. They are upper bounded by the value an employer assigns a role, and lower bounded by the price an employee is willing to accept to do a role.

Within those two bounds, labour markets can play, but the cost of living going up doesn't automatically make more salary money available.

Re: Survey of workers’ views on salary transparency

#194

Post by scarface74 » Fri, Nov 11, 2022, 2:13 PM UTC

roody15 wrote: post #123

0xRusty wrote: post #102

It's not easy for people promoted into manager roles either. I'm a new manager who the first time is now exposed to salary details of my, now direct reports, former co-workers. For the past couple of weeks I've been walking around thinking "how the hell does he make that much?! When I was at that level of experience I was paid $40k less". It's really affecting me to be honest. I'm seeing people in different light and…

Did you ever ask for a raise or more money? If so did they ever say no? In my experience many who complain about salary often failed to ever try and negotiate on behalf of themselves.

I don’t negotiate. I’ve found it’s usually a waste of time and I’m still negotiating around the margins. It has been much easier to just get another job.

Re: Survey of workers’ views on salary transparency

#195

Post by scarface74 » Fri, Nov 11, 2022, 2:14 PM UTC

endisneigh wrote: post #129

wirrbel wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems you didn’t negotiate hard enough on your behalf (or others negotiated at the right time). The question you should ask yourself as a manager now is not the question whether you expect others to negotiate like you did, but how can you reach a pay level across the team that is somewhat balanced . The company I am working in has fairly strict guidance based on competences and experience which I do like. It makes…

This is a meme but it’s not really how it works, not entirely anyway. Take meta. If you joined today vs a year ago and everything else was the same you’d be making over 30% as much. Companies generally don’t pay tenured people as much as new hires across the board. It’s not about negotiating.

“Salary Compression and Inversion”

Re: Survey of workers’ views on salary transparency

#196

Post by shanusmagnus » Fri, Nov 11, 2022, 2:15 PM UTC

0xRusty wrote: post #102

It's not easy for people promoted into manager roles either. I'm a new manager who the first time is now exposed to salary details of my, now direct reports, former co-workers. For the past couple of weeks I've been walking around thinking "how the hell does he make that much?! When I was at that level of experience I was paid $40k less". It's really affecting me to be honest. I'm seeing people in different light and…

Report back after you get a lump sump to allocate between the various people on your team for 2023 raises. That should be an exciting new growth opportunity for you.

Re: Survey of workers’ views on salary transparency

#197

Post by 0xRusty » Fri, Nov 11, 2022, 2:15 PM UTC

scarface74 wrote: post #190

0xRusty wrote: post #102

It's not easy for people promoted into manager roles either. I'm a new manager who the first time is now exposed to salary details of my, now direct reports, former co-workers. For the past couple of weeks I've been walking around thinking "how the hell does he make that much?! When I was at that level of experience I was paid $40k less". It's really affecting me to be honest. I'm seeing people in different light and…

>I hate dealing with this aspect of my job. Everybody just wants wants wants and act like children when they don't get. I go to work everyday for one reason: to exchange labor for money to support my addiction to food and shelter. All three things being nearly equal, my goal is to extract as much money for my labor as possible as long as my job choice doesn’t make me hate my life

I find it kind of sad that's all you get out of your job to be honest.

Re: Survey of workers’ views on salary transparency

#198

Post by scarface74 » Fri, Nov 11, 2022, 2:16 PM UTC

endisneigh wrote: post #173

valdiorn wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Companies generally don’t pay tenured people as much as new hires across the board. It’s not about negotiating. But that IS negotiating. If you show you're willing to stick around in the same role for an extended period of time, for the same pay, you have implicitly negotiated that deal for yourself. Why TF would your employer be incentivised to pay you more if you show yourself to be happy with the status quo? Hav…

Why are you comparing drinking coffee to switching jobs? It’s not the same at all.

In 25+ years changing jobs 8 times (6 since 2008), it’s never taken me more than a month to have multiple job offers.

I’ll be the first to admit that until 2015, they were just another enterprise CRUD job

Re: Survey of workers’ views on salary transparency

#199

Post by shanusmagnus » Fri, Nov 11, 2022, 2:17 PM UTC

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #155

roody15 wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you ever ask for a raise or more money? If so did they ever say no? In my experience many who complain about salary often failed to ever try and negotiate on behalf of themselves.

Some of us think that doing our job should be enough to be fairly compensated without having to take on the additional duty of continually fighting for it. But since that isn't how things work in glorious capitalist utopia, I just slack off hard core instead. I don't need the money near as much as I need my time back.

Just wait till you see the comp in the glorious socialist utopia, you're gonna love that I bet.

Re: Survey of workers’ views on salary transparency

#200

Post by thebigspacefuck » Fri, Nov 11, 2022, 2:17 PM UTC

digitalsushi wrote: post #138

I'm getting really old cause I am starting to see this from both sides If you found out your cube neighbor is out-earning you and you do the same work, you (probably) are safer when the next wave of layoffs comes around. That little disparity can feel like a giant shield. This is the most anti-worker thing I have ever typed. I hate myself for sharing how I rationalize this.

They get laid off, they get a few months of paid vacation, a raise when they switch jobs, and a sign on bonus. You are still working for the same old salary. How do you feel now?