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Why Is Tipping Everywhere You Checkout?

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Re: Why Is Tipping Everywhere You Checkout?

#211

Post by dheera »

ac29 wrote: post #184
pcurve wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always tip 20, but I honestly hate doing it for many reasons. I also hate separate sales tax. Just build it into the menu. I just got back from Portugal. 99% of places took cards. When you are ready to pay the bill, they bring out the portable POS machine, you tap your card, and you're done. No awkward tipping screen. No separate calculation for sales tax. No pressure to buy bottled water or charging of table fee l…

> I also hate separate sales tax. Just build it into the menu. Presumably this is in part for the same reasons as the article's take on tips. If one business includes sales tax in their prices and another doesnt, the one who doesnt is going to look cheaper to customers even though its actually the same price. Sales tax is also surprisingly complicated in the US. At least where I live, there is sales tax from the Stat…

> Sales tax is also surprisingly complicated in the US.

Sure but the sales tax number for your establishment's particular location is constant, so you can still build it into the menu.

Re: Why Is Tipping Everywhere You Checkout?

#212

Post by selfhoster11 »

hazmazlaz wrote: post #162
maerF0x0 wrote: post #33

Some (many?) countries have demonstrated that no-tipping can work just fine. > makes them less competitive to any nearby coffeeshops that haven't raised prices Maybe I'm an outlier but for me I'm sick of the mental game of "Am I good member of society for the % I selected, and how much will my date judge me if I choose what used to be the norm -- 10%-15%... and am I the sucker if I choose a high amount while other pe…

We can, and should give employees dignity and a fair wage. We can each start right now by directly transferring a tiny portion of our wealth to the individuals that we interact with who could benefit from it (at least in this specific context, not exclusive of others who could also benefit). I figure, I have it, they could use it, and I don't need to change everything about our economy and society to do it. I can jus…

I’m sorry but why should it be our wealth? Billionaires seem to have a lot more spare cash sitting around, let them pay for it.

Re: Why Is Tipping Everywhere You Checkout?

#213

Post by Aunche »

ac29 wrote: post #188
Aunche wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why cant we just give employees dignity and a fair wage? We do and that's tipped wages. A career waiter in a major American city can make over 100k, which is several times more than what they would make in Europe. Even if you adjust for cost of living and median incomes, it's still going to be much higher. On the low end of the spectrum, tipped wages and untipped wages would be both at minimum wage.

> A career waiter in a major American city can make over 100k, Yeah, but this is counter service we are talking about. The person making your latte is not making $100k/year. When I worked at a coffee place ~20 years ago, tips were about $1/hour per employee and that was like 10% of my income. Certainly wages and presumably tips are higher now, but these jobs still dont pay much over minimum wage.

I talked about waiters at high end restaurants because that's where the effect of tipping is most evident, but the same market dynamics exist for counter service as well. For employees and the restaurant itself, tipping is almost always going to be better than non-tipping. If these employees aren't getting paid enough, that's something that can only be solved by raising the minimum wage.

Re: Why Is Tipping Everywhere You Checkout?

#214

Post by mkipper »

dheera wrote: post #167
willnonya wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The solution seems clear, stop tipping...

The problem is, it requires everyone to stop tipping simultaneously for the owners to start paying wait staff properly. If only a small fraction of people stop tipping, they'll get shamed as assholes and nothing gets changed.

Yeah. As an individual, if you stop tipping, a large chunk of (North American) society will think you’re a cheap asshole who’s disrespecting your server and won’t care that you’re taking a stance against a larger issue.

There’s nothing wrong with ignoring those people. But I think the average person cares much more about social norms and being judged by others than the people suggesting to just stop tipping.

Re: Why Is Tipping Everywhere You Checkout?

#215

Post by Mikeb85 »

asdff wrote: post #189
Mikeb85 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lol foodservice margins are already miniscule. No, you'll pay more.

I can see that for restaurants, the price of a good portion of meat at home isn't all that cheaper, but for coffee shops? That $6 lattee probably cost them thirty cents of milk sugar and beans and less than a dollar in labor to put in front of you.

If I were to facepalm any harder I'd knock myself out... This is legit among the worst takes I've ever heard.

Edit - especially puzzling to hear since software has little to no marginal costs and is almost all capital costs and labour.

First of all, typical rent for a coffee shop sized space in a major city is around $8-10k per month. So factor that in.

Second, baristas don't get paid on demand... They get paid hourly times how many hours they work. In a tight labour market, assume $20 per hour times 8 hours per day for EACH barista. 2 baristas, that's $360 per day in labour costs alone. So you need to sell around 70 lattes per day just to break even on labour, nevermind rent or recovering capital costs.

So capital costs. A typical commercial espresso machine is $20k. But let's talk about the whole buildout. Coffee shops don't need a full commercial kitchen but there's still coffee machines, oven or panini, plumbing, electrical, decor, refrigeration, etc... So let's say $200 per square foot (versus $400 for a typical restaurant). Times let's say 2000 square feet. That's $400k. That needs to be recovered over the course of the lease just to BREAK EVEN. Nevermind to actually make the business worthwhile.

When you go for a latte or go out to eat you're not paying only the marginal cost of your product, you're paying for everything that went into making it possible to produce that product.

Honestly people don't deserve restaurants. Just make your coffee at home.

Edit - this is like thinking when you buy an iPhone you pay only for the raw materials, not all the investment into factories/equipment and engineers to make it work...

Re: Why Is Tipping Everywhere You Checkout?

#216

Post by Mikeb85 »

jankyxenon wrote: post #42
ecommerceguy wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having owned a bar in the past I can tell you right now the most wealthy people either didn't tip at all or very little. Fellow service industry people tipped the best.

How can you tell? Most wealthy people - in my experience - don't dress the part.

> How can you tell?

What kind of credit card they have. How they decide what to order. Their mannerisms.

Even the most low-key wealthy people act differently than poor people. Spend enough time around both and you can tell, even if they're dressed identical.

Re: Why Is Tipping Everywhere You Checkout?

#217

Post by Mikeb85 »

maerF0x0 wrote: post #33

Some (many?) countries have demonstrated that no-tipping can work just fine. > makes them less competitive to any nearby coffeeshops that haven't raised prices Maybe I'm an outlier but for me I'm sick of the mental game of "Am I good member of society for the % I selected, and how much will my date judge me if I choose what used to be the norm -- 10%-15%... and am I the sucker if I choose a high amount while other pe…

> Some (many?) countries have demonstrated that no-tipping can work just fine.

Yes, but the reason it's difficult to implement when there was previously a tipping system is the fact that increasing prices to cover labour means a no-tipping place has a higher menu price than a place that encourages tipping.

Customers also have less perceived "power" over their dining experience.

France for example, (mostly) abolished their tipping culture through several pieces of legislation and to this day there's a 15% service charge on your bill in France. Even then they still tip, a little.

Re: Why Is Tipping Everywhere You Checkout?

#218

Post by dheera »

mkipper wrote: post #214
dheera wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is, it requires everyone to stop tipping simultaneously for the owners to start paying wait staff properly. If only a small fraction of people stop tipping, they'll get shamed as assholes and nothing gets changed.

Yeah. As an individual, if you stop tipping, a large chunk of (North American) society will think you’re a cheap asshole who’s disrespecting your server and won’t care that you’re taking a stance against a larger issue. There’s nothing wrong with ignoring those people. But I think the average person cares much more about social norms and being judged by others than the people suggesting to just stop tipping.

For me personally though it's less about being judged (the shaming part) than it is about whether or not what I'm doing is actually causing change to happen.

If there isn't critical mass, the owners won't change anything, and it unfortunately does end up punishing the servers instead of the owners.

Re: Why Is Tipping Everywhere You Checkout?

#219

Post by autoexec »

mkipper wrote: post #214
dheera wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is, it requires everyone to stop tipping simultaneously for the owners to start paying wait staff properly. If only a small fraction of people stop tipping, they'll get shamed as assholes and nothing gets changed.

Yeah. As an individual, if you stop tipping, a large chunk of (North American) society will think you’re a cheap asshole who’s disrespecting your server and won’t care that you’re taking a stance against a larger issue. There’s nothing wrong with ignoring those people. But I think the average person cares much more about social norms and being judged by others than the people suggesting to just stop tipping.

> society will think you’re a cheap asshole who’s disrespecting your server

Tipping in a restaurant where someone is waiting on you is different but, I have zero problems with refusing to tip at the register in retail stores, or for carry out orders at restaurants. I think we can collectively decide against that without fear of being ostracized by society. There's no "norm" right now that says I have to tip someone for a retail transaction, but there is pressure being put on us to normalize it so that businesses can save on labor expenses. Just say no.

Re: Why Is Tipping Everywhere You Checkout?

#220

Post by benhurmarcel »

Mikeb85 wrote: post #217
maerF0x0 wrote: post #33

Some (many?) countries have demonstrated that no-tipping can work just fine. > makes them less competitive to any nearby coffeeshops that haven't raised prices Maybe I'm an outlier but for me I'm sick of the mental game of "Am I good member of society for the % I selected, and how much will my date judge me if I choose what used to be the norm -- 10%-15%... and am I the sucker if I choose a high amount while other pe…

> Some (many?) countries have demonstrated that no-tipping can work just fine. Yes, but the reason it's difficult to implement when there was previously a tipping system is the fact that increasing prices to cover labour means a no-tipping place has a higher menu price than a place that encourages tipping. Customers also have less perceived "power" over their dining experience. France for example, (mostly) abolished…

> to this day there's a 15% service charge on your bill in France

I can't think of any place that bills service separately. They just say the menu is €20, and you pay €20.

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