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FTX tapped into customer accounts to fund risky bets, setting up its downfall

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Re: FTX tapped into customer accounts to fund risky bets, setting up its downfall

#181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are known expired strategies that generated large profits for long periods of time. In some cases the people involved in developing the strategies have directly published things explaining what they did.

I'd be fascinated to read these published things if anyone can point to them!

The books and articles by Ed Thorpe are a good place to start.

Re: FTX tapped into customer accounts to fund risky bets, setting up its downfall

#182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I put $100 in my Chase account. Chase goes horse betting with my money and loses it all. My account shows $0. That's basically what happened here.

Not exactly, because banks tell you that they will loan out your money and you might not get it back, that's why you get interest on the account. They can't go horse betting, but they can loan it out. You don't have "title" over the USD in the bank reserves. This is like if you put $100 in Chase's security deposit box , and they opened it up, took the cash, and lent it out, and then when you come to get it, they say,…

In the USA, bank accounts are guaranteed by the government, up to $250K.

Re: FTX tapped into customer accounts to fund risky bets, setting up its downfall

#183

Trading halt announcement at FTX.US.[1] Announcement says withdrawals still up. But Twitter messages indicate withdrawals are not working. FTX Japan shut down by order of Japan Financial Services Agency.[2] FTX.intl processing some withdrawals, according to blockchain.[3] A few lucky people got to exit. Way too much happening to mention here. Just use Google to search "FTX" and limit search to 1 day. Margin calls all…

> JP Morgan says expect 50% drop across the board in crypto. Around 10 AM PST, somebody just pulled a billion dollars out of Tether.

Meanwhile, aggregate of the cryptocurrency market is up 5.38% over the last day, Tether recovered landing on 0.9999 USD after 4-5 hours of the drop hitting bottom at 0.9818 USD, which was nowhere near previous all-time low Tether has hit previously.

In other words, everyone screams "panic!" while the world quietly moves on.

Re: FTX tapped into customer accounts to fund risky bets, setting up its downfall

#184

Remarkable that a venture-backed company can loan $10B to the founder's hedge fund without running into some sort of board/corporate sign-off that's required to literally execute the agreement/fund transfer.

can do only in crypto

[deleted]

Re: FTX tapped into customer accounts to fund risky bets, setting up its downfall

#185

Trading halt announcement at FTX.US.[1] Announcement says withdrawals still up. But Twitter messages indicate withdrawals are not working. FTX Japan shut down by order of Japan Financial Services Agency.[2] FTX.intl processing some withdrawals, according to blockchain.[3] A few lucky people got to exit. Way too much happening to mention here. Just use Google to search "FTX" and limit search to 1 day. Margin calls all…

SBF tweeted[1] not too long ago that FTX.us was safe and was 100% liquid. I suppose that wasn't the case?

[1] https://twitter.com/SBF_FTX/status/1590709195892195329?t=tQR...

Re: FTX tapped into customer accounts to fund risky bets, setting up its downfall

#186
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're conflating FTX.us (which is regulated) and operates in the USA, and FTX global (where all this chicanery happened) and is located in the Bahamas. With that said, the SEC is already also investigating any potential links between the two entities. I don't think they'd be stupid enough to cross those wires, but you never know.

No, see Molly White's blog and the WSJ parent article. What seems to have happened is that 1) FTX.intl loaned money to Alameda Research in the US in exchange for some token, 2) Alameda Research, which is a crypto trading firm, speculated with that money and lost, 3) the collateral from Alameda to FTX turned out to have little value, and so 4) FTX.intl goes down. Bear in mind that Mr. Bankman-Fried heads all three org…

I fully understand the purported chain of events. But, again: the US does not have jurisdiction over FTX. So why would he "get arrested" in California for embezzlement? He didn't break any US laws. The FTX/Alameda deal was likely done via SAFT[1], which is both legal and popular.

[1] https://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/simple-agreement-future...

Re: FTX tapped into customer accounts to fund risky bets, setting up its downfall

#187
post #9

This is one of the reasons downturns in markets are good. If the market would've just kept growing then SBF likely could've kept his ponzi scheme afloat without anyone noticing. The 2008 recession is what really stopped Bernie Madoff.

Yes, downturns help expose "the bezzle": the gap between perceived value and long-term economic value.

I first learned the term "bezzle" here on Hacker News and read more about it in the article "Why the Bezzle Matters to the Economy": https://carnegieendowment.org/chinafinancialmarkets/85179

It's an interesting read to those who enjoy economics.

Re: FTX tapped into customer accounts to fund risky bets, setting up its downfall

#188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I put $100 in my Chase account. Chase goes horse betting with my money and loses it all. My account shows $0. That's basically what happened here.

Not exactly, because banks tell you that they will loan out your money and you might not get it back, that's why you get interest on the account. They can't go horse betting, but they can loan it out. You don't have "title" over the USD in the bank reserves. This is like if you put $100 in Chase's security deposit box , and they opened it up, took the cash, and lent it out, and then when you come to get it, they say,…

Only tangentially related, but don't put cash in safety deposit boxes. Police can take them under civil forfeiture laws:

https://nypost.com/2021/06/12/fbi-aims-to-keep-valuables-86m...

https://www.businessinsider.com/fbi-raid-1400-boxes-us-priva...

Re: FTX tapped into customer accounts to fund risky bets, setting up its downfall

#189
post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really shows how little oversight any of these venture funds have. They come across more like frat bros with huge pockets casually giving away billions under a pinky promise of eventual returns. At this point, they are doing the same level of DD as those degens in WSB. But I guess you don't have much leverage when the fed is printing trillions for years and we end up with dozens of Zuckerberg types, too much power an…

It is dangerous to extrapolate from one case (or even a few notable cases in recent years) that venture funds have "little oversight" over portfolio companies. These are the exceptions rather than the rule. Obviously, some boards are better than others at oversight, but the complete absence of a functioning board, as was the case at FTX, is definitely very, very unusual.

Like you have conceded, there are more than a few notable cases in recent years.

Often hiding their "secret sauce", which often turn out to be lies and deception for a variety of reasons.

It is no longer very very "unusual" when free loans, credit and liquidity has been floating around for years thanks to the money printer.

Re: FTX tapped into customer accounts to fund risky bets, setting up its downfall

#190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not exactly, because banks tell you that they will loan out your money and you might not get it back, that's why you get interest on the account. They can't go horse betting, but they can loan it out. You don't have "title" over the USD in the bank reserves. This is like if you put $100 in Chase's security deposit box , and they opened it up, took the cash, and lent it out, and then when you come to get it, they say,…

In the USA, bank accounts are guaranteed by the government, up to $250K.

And the FDIC can afford to do that because there are laws dictating liquidity requirements to banks and disclosure requirements to inspect and enforce those rules.
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