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FTX tapped into customer accounts to fund risky bets, setting up its downfall

wsj.com

101–110 of 746 posts

Re: FTX tapped into customer accounts to fund risky bets, setting up its downfall

#101
post #13

The Twitter thread from SBF is even better where he admits he messed up. And still trying to throw jabs at Binance here and there like it’s their fault they’re here. Unbelievable.

To me the funniest part is him saying "I should've done better", as if he was attempting something worthwhile, but failed. No, he stole his customers and "done better" would've been doing the opposite.

Re: FTX tapped into customer accounts to fund risky bets, setting up its downfall

#103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>ponzi scheme This is not a ponzi scheme. This is a good old "not firewalling your customer's money and your investment money" that everyone suffered from in 2008. The situation is cataphoric enough without people mis-using terms.

They used FTT as collateral for loans used on trading activities that boosted FTT value It's not literally a Ponzi, but it's Ponzi adjacent behavior, like what Bill Hwang did.

Bill hwang didn’t even take investor money. How did you come to the conclusion that his behavior was ponzi adjacent?

Re: FTX tapped into customer accounts to fund risky bets, setting up its downfall

#104
post #93

To summarize, the WSJ article says he took $10B of $16B in customer deposits to FTX and used that to finance his hedge fund.

...and then the hedge fund lost the whole $10B. Corruption AND incompetence.

or just spent it?

Re: FTX tapped into customer accounts to fund risky bets, setting up its downfall

#105
post #16

This is embezzlement. Mr. Bankman-Fried should be arrested. Now.

Arrested by UN? Genuinely curious

SEC often asserts jurisdiction over anything where American domiciled investors have suffered a large loss. That bar will definitely be met here.

Re: FTX tapped into customer accounts to fund risky bets, setting up its downfall

#106
post #81

Remarkable that a venture-backed company can loan $10B to the founder's hedge fund without running into some sort of board/corporate sign-off that's required to literally execute the agreement/fund transfer.

Would this even be possible at any hedge fund?

Not a hedge fund but MF Global/Jon Corzine was an interesting similar incident that was not crypto-related.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Corzine

> Corzine was subpoenaed to appear before a House committee on December 8, 2011, to answer questions regarding 1.2 billion dollars of missing money from MF Global client accounts. He testified before the committee, "I simply do not know where the money is, or why the accounts have not been reconciled to date," and that given the number of money transfers in the final days of trading at MF Global, he didn't know specifics of the movement of the funds. He also denied authorizing any misuse of customer funds.

> On the day of MF Global's bankruptcy, a Bloomberg reporter wrote "Jon Corzine's risk appetite helped destroy his firm. It also provided an object lesson for Paul Volcker's campaign against proprietary trading on Wall Street."

Re: FTX tapped into customer accounts to fund risky bets, setting up its downfall

#107

I highly recommend reading this article, from 50 days ago . So many humorous quotes to be had in that article. https://www.sequoiacap.com/article/sam-bankman-fried-spotlig... edit: archive https://archive.ph/GQkCp

Please tell me someone has this on internet archive.

Re: FTX tapped into customer accounts to fund risky bets, setting up its downfall

#108
post #83
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Richmond, CA police department. Alameda Research HQ is at 5327 Jacuzzi St Ste 1c, Richmond, CA 94804. Since they were apparently the recipient of the money, and he's apparently the principal beneficiary of all this, that's where to start. Mr. Bankman-Fried may not physically be there, but they have jurisdiction. Once there's an arrest warrant, getting away becomes much more difficult.

You're conflating FTX.us (which is regulated) and operates in the USA, and FTX global (where all this chicanery happened) and is located in the Bahamas. With that said, the SEC is already also investigating any potential links between the two entities. I don't think they'd be stupid enough to cross those wires, but you never know.

If years of following crypto has taught me anything, it's the answer to "They couldn't possibly be that stupid, could they?" is always yes.

Re: FTX tapped into customer accounts to fund risky bets, setting up its downfall

#109

Remarkable that a venture-backed company can loan $10B to the founder's hedge fund without running into some sort of board/corporate sign-off that's required to literally execute the agreement/fund transfer.

It feels like a very Adam Neumann move.

Self dealing

Re: FTX tapped into customer accounts to fund risky bets, setting up its downfall

#110

Quoted post unavailable.

Banks are highly regulated in exactly how much of the deposits they can use and what kind of risks they can take with it. This is complicated: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_requirement Also in the US at least banks are FDIC insured, so if the bank is breaking the law and gambling inappropriately consumers are still protected. "How is crypto different than a bank" is a reductive and foolish comparison. There a…

> "every cryptocurrency system is a fraud at its heart."

I'm not sure I agree with you on that part.

Fraud is defined as "wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain." Encryption-based currency by itself does not meet that definition.

Can people use crypto to commit fraud? Yes, just the same as they could use fiat or anything else that has perceived value.

imho the main value of crypto as a technology is that it is A) decentralized, and B) removes many intermediaries & inefficiencies involved in handling + distributing money.

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