Apple to set up first dev center outside of CA in Israel • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple to set up first dev center outside of CA in Israel

#41

Post by tkahn6 » Thu, Dec 15, 2011, 3:51 AM UTC

guelo wrote: post #35

reissbaker wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only requirement to become an Israeli citizen is a religious claim. Unless you misunderstand the meaning of "requirement," you're either misinformed or making things up. There are plenty of Christian and Muslim citizens of Israel. There are even Muslim Israeli Arabs in the Knesset, Israel's version of the Parliament. In short: being Jewish is not a "requirement" of citizenship.

What I was referring to was the Israeli Law of Return that gives citizenship to any Jew that applies. But as far as Arab Israelis, they are discriminated against in all sort of ways including discrimination encoded into laws. Israel proudly claims to be a Jewish state and they intend to keep it that way by discriminating against Arabs in any way they see as necessary.

> What I was referring to was the Israeli Law of Return that gives citizenship to any Jew that applies.

Also known as Jus Sanguinis with the twist being that one can convert to Judaism. Judaism is a remnant from a time when nation and religion were interchangeable terms. Hence why conversion is possible.

And in case you were unaware, this isn't the only way to acquire Israeli citizenship. Non-Jews can acquire Israeli citizenship through a typical naturalization process.

> including discrimination encoded into laws.

I challenge you to find an Israeli law that discriminates against Israeli Arabs. The closest you'll find are laws which specify state-funded opportunities only provided to those who have done civil or military service.

For someone who has gone so far as to boycott Intel products because of their connection with Israel, you are shockingly ignorant about very basic facts.

Re: Apple to set up first dev center outside of CA in Israel

#42

Post by guelo » Thu, Dec 15, 2011, 5:05 AM UTC

tkahn6 wrote: post #41

guelo wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I was referring to was the Israeli Law of Return that gives citizenship to any Jew that applies. But as far as Arab Israelis, they are discriminated against in all sort of ways including discrimination encoded into laws. Israel proudly claims to be a Jewish state and they intend to keep it that way by discriminating against Arabs in any way they see as necessary.

> What I was referring to was the Israeli Law of Return that gives citizenship to any Jew that applies. Also known as Jus Sanguinis with the twist being that one can convert to Judaism. Judaism is a remnant from a time when nation and religion were interchangeable terms. Hence why conversion is possible. And in case you were unaware, this isn't the only way to acquire Israeli citizenship. Non-Jews can acquire Israeli…

I can find two laws:

- The racist Jewish National Fund, which manages a big chunk of Israeli land exclusively for Jews, was authorized by the Knesset to refuse to lease land to Arab citizens.

- Arab citizens are not allowed to obtain citizenship for foreign spouses while Jews can.

Re: Apple to set up first dev center outside of CA in Israel

#43

Post by Musora » Thu, Dec 15, 2011, 5:50 AM UTC

krembo wrote: post #23

By the article the dev center will be located in Matan which is an incredible place located in Haifa. It's location closed to the Technion brings the best brains to work for the dev centers of most of the international enterprises located there. (The Technion institute brought 3 Nobel prize winners in the last 7 years with a yearly budget of about only 200M$) So it's like the silicon valley except the size. The size…

Imho this is somewhat a dead place. There might be a big chunk of semiconductor companies over there (what is the reason that Apple opens up there I guess) but brains wise it's a bad place. It's virtually impossible to hire good developers over there because everybody is located in the center from the beginning or moved to the center because there is no companies in the Haifa to work for (Intel, IBM, Microsoft, Google, Yahoo, Elbit,NDS, Philips, GE, Zoran doesn't really count as work places for most of the people)

Re: Apple to set up first dev center outside of CA in Israel

#44

Post by tkahn6 » Thu, Dec 15, 2011, 6:05 AM UTC

guelo wrote: post #42

tkahn6 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What I was referring to was the Israeli Law of Return that gives citizenship to any Jew that applies. Also known as Jus Sanguinis with the twist being that one can convert to Judaism. Judaism is a remnant from a time when nation and religion were interchangeable terms. Hence why conversion is possible. And in case you were unaware, this isn't the only way to acquire Israeli citizenship. Non-Jews can acquire Israeli…

I can find two laws: - The racist Jewish National Fund, which manages a big chunk of Israeli land exclusively for Jews, was authorized by the Knesset to refuse to lease land to Arab citizens. - Arab citizens are not allowed to obtain citizenship for foreign spouses while Jews can.

With regards to the first law, you are either misinformed or simplifying: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_National_Fund#Adalah.27s...

With regards to the second law, that is a result of national security concerns. Spouses of Arab citizens are not allowed to obtain citizenship automatically (they can of course, as I stated above, go through a naturalization process) because if that were the case it would effectively be the Right of Return.

Re: Apple to set up first dev center outside of CA in Israel

#45

Post by reissbaker » Thu, Dec 15, 2011, 8:48 PM UTC

guelo wrote: post #35

reissbaker wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only requirement to become an Israeli citizen is a religious claim. Unless you misunderstand the meaning of "requirement," you're either misinformed or making things up. There are plenty of Christian and Muslim citizens of Israel. There are even Muslim Israeli Arabs in the Knesset, Israel's version of the Parliament. In short: being Jewish is not a "requirement" of citizenship.

What I was referring to was the Israeli Law of Return that gives citizenship to any Jew that applies. But as far as Arab Israelis, they are discriminated against in all sort of ways including discrimination encoded into laws. Israel proudly claims to be a Jewish state and they intend to keep it that way by discriminating against Arabs in any way they see as necessary.

Under apartheid, black people were not allowed to be citizens. They were not allowed in Parliament. They were not allowed to vote. Which makes your claim of Israeli apartheid is overblown to the point of being ridiculous. Muslims, Christians, Jews, black people, white people, and Arabs can all vote. Everyone can sit in Parliament, as Muslim Arab Israelis have and currently do. Non-Jews can still be citizens, and citizens are not separated into different legal classes like under the South African apartheid system. Back your argument up with something more concrete than your handwavey "all sorts of ways," or don't make it at all.

A closer analogue to Israeli discrimination based on religion is America's race- and class-based discrimination. As one example among the hundreds available, prison sentences are many times higher for crack cocaine abuses than pure cocaine abuses -- because the American underpriveleged (who are often minorities) are more likely to use crack, and the American wealthy (who are often white) are more likely to use pure cocaine. The Israeli legal system inarguably has systemic bias, but it's much closer to American legal systemic bias than South African apartheid.