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Ask HN: How do I find my “purpose”?

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Re: Ask HN: How do I find my “purpose”?

#201
post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shouldn't you be posing the same question to yourself though? Why do you want or need to push your comfort zone?

Ah, excellent question! Words are funny things, they have different meanings, and in the case of words with such broad opportunity it is my responsibility to clarify myself. That's why philosophy books always start out defining terms. I put "purpose" and "calling" (and "mission") into a category of fixed, one-dimensional, outcomes. "My calling is thing X, that is all I do." Same thing with "meaning". It is too big to…

Interesting thoughts, thanks for the reply! I am very much in agreement with you on some of these points. I think you're absolutely right that people can think in a way that is too existentially broad and disconnected from concrete reality in a way that actually magnifies their suffering, rather than reducing it.

That said, I think "value" can be just as broad/general and, in some uses, might actually be being used as synonymous with "purpose." I don't think people generally have in mind the Aristotelian "final cause" (the end, that for the sake of which a thing is done) when they use the word "purpose". OP may have been, I don't know.

The way I think about it — and I think what most have in mind when they ask such questions, although, not necessarily OP, I acknowledge — is a feeling that you are using your time in a way that is worthwhile. Or, perhaps, in psycho-physiological terms, experiencing a signaling that says "there aren't more important things you I could be occupying myself with" (not at every moment, but generally).

Jordan Peterson was once asked about meaning and the way he articulated it gave me a lot of food for thought. He said: "To me, meaning is implication for action for reorganization of the perceptual frames that frame action." I think this is very useful and sort of responds to some of your points/concerns in that it anchors the question of meaning in action.

Re: Ask HN: How do I find my “purpose”?

#202
For me, I found my core principles through art (specifically music) and introspection. And then I waited my entire career to realize those principles had also been my calling / purpose.

I have always listened to a LOT of music. One lyric caught my attention when I was in college... "I crucified my hate and held the world within my hand." I thought about that lyric deeply and why it was there. That led to an experiment where I decided not to use the word "hate" for a year. It was hard at first, but as time went by I found that looking for other ways to express issues was transforming my thinking - language can be quite powerful that way.

After that year, I decided to continue not to use that word towards living beings. I might use it towards their actions, but not towards them. With reflection, I realized that a corollary was to use love as a motivation in everything I do - to try hard to find some amount of love for everyone I interact with. It made a lot of my life, especially in hard times, make more sense.

Now it's ~35 years since the initial experiment and I'm retired. I continue to mentor a number of people that I worked with, and others that they now work with (for pleasure, I don't take money). And when things like the current tech layoffs happen, many of them and others come to me for support and contextualization. Only now do I realize that this focus on love has been my purpose for nearly my entire adult life. These people see it (probably intuitively rather than explicitly) and come to me when they struggle to find productive ways to think about hard things in life.

Looking back, it defined me as a leader toward the end of my career. As I was retiring, a manager that I had advocated for thanked me for "leading the org from a place of love". I had avoided using the word "love" in that context for fear of misunderstanding, replacing it with components of love like caring / compassion / supporting / understanding / nurturing etc., but it was always an underlying motivation. It was wonderful that she could see the root of it all. And it was funny that I didn't realize it was my calling until later.

Re: Ask HN: How do I find my “purpose”?

#203

I take issue with traditional advice on the subject-- it's all self-centered. Finding MY purpose. MY life meaning. MY values. The path to getting there involves MY consumption of , acquisition of wealth, influence, or other forms of self-indulgence. Everything is about MY happiness. Consider that perhaps you don't find your "calling." Instead, it finds you. The only "trick" here is that you have to be reachable by pu…

> Volunteer work is a good start, missionary work is even better. I couldn’t disagree more with regard to missionary work. Having someone tell me why their sky friend needs to be in my life is outright offensive. I get a fair few US 20-25 year olds trying this crap out at my home in Auckland, New Zealand.

I wasn't suggesting anything secular. Programs like Doctors Without Borders was more what I had in mind, but that particular example requires specialization and longer-term commitment.

The point is to travel, see the real rest of the world, and to get something from the experience other than hangovers and gonorrhea.

Door-to-door evangelism amounts to harassment and is not at all in scope.

Re: Ask HN: How do I find my “purpose”?

#204
post #72

If AvE is to be believed, there is no purpose. You choose a goal and you getting to that goal is your purpose. Choose unachievable goal, a moonshot, and you're set for life.

This a thousand times! Pithy and to the Point. PS: What is "AvE"?

AvE (Arduino vs. Evil) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7RgtMGL7CA

Re: Ask HN: How do I find my “purpose”?

#205
Ha Ha 8-) I take it from your username that this post is intended to trigger trolls, so I thought I'd respond...

Of course, the answer is, you have no "purpose", or you can have any "purpose" you choose.

Since "purpose" is a completely fictional concept, in the exact same way as finance. You take all the people away, there is no "purpose" to the universe.

Gravity, electromagentism, they're totally happy chugging along with no humans in sight.

But "purpose" evaporates as soon as you get rid of all the monkeys.

This "increase in happiness" you're talking about is just how monkeys think of themselves.

So, you can dive into the rabbit hole of that deep and dark world between your ears, or, you can face reality. OK, who's really going to do that? Not too many people, that's for sure.

I mean come on, you're awesome at Mario Cart right? Who wants to give the major successes in their lives only to face the fact that all of that stuff is bullshit?

So, slink off into the recesses of your neurotic primate consciousness and forget all about ever hearing about this thing called the "real world".

Just ask yourself, who's better off: someone who wrote a 900 page tome on human history, or someone who just wrote a "popular" novel?

Reality is not for the weak... There is no "purpose" except what you invent for yourself...

Re: Ask HN: How do I find my “purpose”?

#206
PASSION:

1. "You don't find a purpose, you choose it" ~ anonymous

2. Please read the book "Be so good they can't ignore you" by Cal Newport. The world has bombarded us with the 'work on what you are passionate about and you'll never work a day' idea. They don't tell us what 'passion' is and how to 'develop' it. One should start to focus on their only/various interests. These slight interests are either innate or are a product of their environment. Either way, one should try to spend some time on them, get better. Then after reaching a certain skill level by incremental improvement and incremental +ve feedback, this interest will convert into a 'passion'.

---------------------------

MEANING:

1. Wacth Jordan Peterson's "Meaning of life" lecture on youtube.

2. To find meaning in your life (*existential crisis), all you need to do is consistently pick up any load/responsibility in life - raising kids, managing a team/company, volunteer work, open-source software etc. This will help you see yourself as a useful entity in your own eyes.

Re: Ask HN: How do I find my “purpose”?

#207
I've been exploring this exact question and have come to some unexpected conclusions. For me, the responses you've gotten so far aren't very helpful primarily because they misunderstand the problem.

I start with the premise that 1) We can identify periods of our lives that felt meaningful/purposeful, etc and 2) Creating a life where we feel that way more often is an attractive goal.

If you don't agree with those premises then the rest of what I'm going to write won't be relevant. My guess is you do, and so do most of the people responding to this thread.

Now the tricky thing is that while we can identify the periods of our lives that felt most meaningful, it's incredibly difficult to define meaning/purpose in the abstract. This is an unfamiliar problem for most of us. It's my experience that most analytically gifted people live their lives by establishing a set of clear goals that we then use as lenses for making day to day decisions.

If my goal is to have a large impact on the world I have enough of a sense for what that looks like that I can make decisions about what to focus on to make it more likely that will happen. The same can be said about spending more time with friends, or working on challenging problems. We can confidently visualize what the world looks like where we are doing those things, and set ourselves to the task of making it a reality. (Goals are actually proxies for feelings we want, but that's a topic for another day).

The confidence (accurate or not) that we can achieve these goals is what gives us the motivation to pursue them. From an adaptive perspective it's clear why this is the case. Pursuing impossible goals leads to wasted time and resources, so you would expect our motivation system to be directly influenced by the likelihood of success.

This presents a challenge for our desire to experience more meaning and purpose. Without the ability to define meaning in the abstract we can't confidently visualize a future where they are present. This makes it extremely difficult to know what to orient towards, and even we can tell ourselves a story that seems plausible, challenging to conjure the motivation to pursue it.

It may be that this is in fact by design. We have all had the experience of returning to activities or modes of being that once felt extremely meaningful, but no longer produce the desired effect. Simply replicating what's been meaningful in the past isn't the best strategy. My belief is that meaning/purpose is a different kind of thing and we need to use a different mechanism than we do to achieve other kinds of goals in order to produce more of it in our lives.

We can't orient towards meaning and purpose in the way we do for professional success, but we can train ourselves to make decisions that lead to more of it. The first step I recommend people take is to describe the meaningful experiences in their past in as much detail as possible. This has two benefits. First you're training your brain to recognize those states. The more detail you go into and the more experiences you unpack, the more you're conditioning yourself to recognize all the subtleties that made that experience meaningful. Focus on the other feelings that were present during those periods. Did you feel challenged? Supported in a certain way? Were you learning? Playing? In my experience the specific constellation of feelings associated with meaning will differ for each person which is why the prescriptive definitions of meaning don't resonate for most of us.

I think of feelings as highly compressed data formed by our lived experience rather than the ideas we have in our minds. This is the domain of meaning, and in order to orient towards persistently meaningful lives, we need to actively engage with that system.

By training yourself to recognize the feelings associated with your past experiences of meaning, that awareness becomes available to you in your day to day life. You can ask yourself if a particular choice is more or less likely to lead to more meaning, and with enough practice you will feel an answer. You can think of this a lot like physical skills that you learn. You know how to ride a bike, but you couldn't teach someone else how to do it simply by describing it to them. Your body learns the highly complex series of motions you need to perform in order to stay balanced while peddling, all without you needing any conscious understanding of how it works.

The world is infinitely complex and we can't pay attention to everything in our environment. When you climb onto a bike you automatically attune to the inputs you need to be aware of in order to ride it successfully. Orienting towards meaning requires a similar action. You need to proactively put yourself in a frame of mind that preferences the inputs that will help you make decisions that lead to more meaning.

Once you've trained yourself well enough on your past experiences you can ask yourself if a certain decision is likely to lead to more meaning, and more often than not you'll get a felt answer of yes or no.

Another way to think of this feeling system is as an AI that's simply processing too much data for you to be consciously aware of. It learns the incredibly complex pattern of meaning by training on your past experiences, and is going to be far more effective than your analytical mind in determining what future experiences are likely to produce.

There's some subtlety in how to train yourself most effectively, but this is the general idea, I hope it's helpful!

Re: Ask HN: How do I find my “purpose”?

#208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an atheist, I obviously disagree. Purpose and meaning have to be based in truth, scientific truth, if you will. Otherwise, you run the risk of harming someone. Dogmatic belief systems based on revelation are risky at best.

I am glad you found meaning in science and facts! Maybe I didn't read the right scientists. I couldn't get past what Plato would call 'shadows on a cave wall' when it comes to finding 'truth' but once again, I am probably not reading the right people or the 'right works'. If you have anything you'd recommend I'd love to read it.

> I am glad you found meaning in science and facts!

I did not say that. I think I said purpose and meaning need to be grounded in facts / science and should not be derived from belief systems based on "revelation" and other collective delusions.

Re: Ask HN: How do I find my “purpose”?

#209
"You, seed of an evil genius and precarious offspring of hard fortune, whose life is but for a day, why do you compel me to tell you those things of which it is better you should remain ignorant? For he lives with the least worry who knows not his misfortune; but for humans, the best for them is not to be born at all, not to partake of nature's excellence; not to be is best, for both sexes. This should be our choice, if choice we have; and the next to this is, when we are born, to die as soon as we can." - Silenus

... and this my friend is how the best form of literature known to man kind was born! Out of despair. Because for them, there was no paradise, only Hades. Jesus wasn't around and they didn't believe life after death was something worth bothering with, it was dark, cold and muddy!

> Is there any research that goes into what is "purpose" and how to figure it out

Is there some sort of research that can prove with certainty that you're in love?

Logic was invented long time ago to solve a communication problem. The most powerful expression of logic is mathematics. But purpose is beyond logic's scope. Mathematics can tell you how to get from pointA to pointB, can't tell you _why_ you have to go from pointA to pointB.

The fact you're even asking this questions is commendable. Most ppl are not as courageous. However, no one can do the work for you, you have to figure that for yourself.

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