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The Age of PageRank Is Over

blog.kagi.com

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Re: The Age of PageRank Is Over

#351

Post by mikepurvis »

auggierose wrote: post #329
random314 wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This showed up at an internal Twitter meeting this week. Mr. Musk proposed making Twitter ad free for 8$ accounts before being politely informed that 8$ accounts actually produce 50$ per month in ad revenue. An angry bird informed me about this :)

How do they know that, given that $8 accounts must be still pretty rare given they were just introduced?

Because it's a pattern that manifests everywhere and can be extrapolated.

Though in this case, it's likely that Twitter has repeatedly run internal studies about what a paid-tier would look like, and each time concluded exactly what the GP is passing on: that it would be a net loss because the most-valuable-to-advertiser accounts would be the first ones to pay.

Even just psychologically, it would be a major blow to their sales pitch, going from "pay $X to put your name in front of the top movers and shakers in the world" to "pay $Y to put your name in front of all the Twitter users too cheap to cough up $8/mo to not have to see you." Not hard to see that $Y is going to be less than $X... probably a lot less.

Re: The Age of PageRank Is Over

#352

Post by larve »

jitix wrote: post #90
larve wrote: post #71

I've been using kagi exclusively for the last 3 months. I pay $30 because I feel it's worth it and I can afford it. While I tried to use duckduckgo, I found myself reverting to google on every other search. With kagi, I never had to, and I have built myself a set of useful filters based on what project I'm working on. This, along with switching to mastodon, means that I almost never encounter ads anymore. I honestly…

Congrats! I’ve recently started the journey towards more decentralization and kagi seems to be the next logical fit. So far I’ve self hosted backups with s3 replication and next cloud over tailscale has been amazing but I’m still trying to figure out social media. How does the workflow look like for sharing an album of pics with friends and family (who are on traditional social media platforms)?

We just use whatsapp / dropbox / adobe bridge / icloud. Pretty transient, but in a way that's fine. My father is a photographer and makes a lot books, so we have tangible artefacts.

Re: The Age of PageRank Is Over

#353

Post by dchuk »

smt88 wrote: post #242
ZephyrBlu wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> combined with the powerful indexing tools we have now What powerful indexing tools exist today? I have little context on the search domain but it's very interesting.

I'm not sure, but it sounds like they mean that building and quickly searching an index has been democratized. You can now use any number of FOSS projects or SaaS offerings to do that, depending on how big you want the index to be and how much you want to spend.

That’s right. Back when google was coming to be, building a search index was basically computer science/grad school research territory. Now there’s tons of good starting points that you can throw money and hardware to scale quite a bit to at least prove out a product concept.

Re: The Age of PageRank Is Over

#354

Post by Larrikin »

AndroidKitKat wrote: post #149
Calamitous wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another nice thing about Kagi is that you can eliminate domains from your search results. Obvious content farms are pretty easy to spot and remove.

My favorite feature is being able to boost a certain domain up in the the results (or even pin it if you really would like). I often search for different Pokemon and prefer the information that a site like Serebii.net gives me over something like Bulbapedia.

Is there any reason why? I'm not heavy into the game anymore but usually when I'm searching Pokemon Bulbapedia has the information I want.

Re: The Age of PageRank Is Over

#355

Post by _aavaa_ »

kbyatnal wrote: post #145

IMO this article misses the biggest issue with search engines today. It's less about any ranking algorithm (like PageRank), but rather the root cause is with indexing. No matter how much you fine tune your ranking system, if your index is filled with SEO junk and blogspam, you're fighting a losing battle from the start. For some reason, a lot of these search engines like to brag about the number of documents in their…

On Kagi you as an individual can up rank and down rank websites (even hiding them entirely).

They can conceivably use this information to do the same thing, curare the results and change their ordering

Re: The Age of PageRank Is Over

#356

Post by mrkramer »

nottorp wrote: post #348
mrkramer wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You said >In the future, instead of everyone sharing the same search engine, you’ll have your completely individual, personalized Mike or Julia or Jarvis - the AI. This is what Google is doing under the hood and they have the upper hand because they collect absolutely everything about the user. Yea there is a lot of noise but their advantage is enormous because theoretically the more they know about you the better se…

> theoretically the more they know about you the better search results you will get Better from whose point of view? ;)

user's

Re: The Age of PageRank Is Over

#357

Post by random314 »

auggierose wrote: post #329
random314 wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This showed up at an internal Twitter meeting this week. Mr. Musk proposed making Twitter ad free for 8$ accounts before being politely informed that 8$ accounts actually produce 50$ per month in ad revenue. An angry bird informed me about this :)

How do they know that, given that $8 accounts must be still pretty rare given they were just introduced?

I think the analysis was for pre existing blue check accounts.

Re: The Age of PageRank Is Over

#358

Post by freediver »

mrkramer wrote: post #156
freediver wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is Google is trying to do this with the data extracted/mined/tracked from the user (pulled), while the model proposed in the article is based on users volunteering their data to the search engine (push) because incentives are aligned and they trust it. A sbtle difference, but the latter can produce vastly better outcomes as the quality of the data would be presumably much higher. (auther here)

You said >In the future, instead of everyone sharing the same search engine, you’ll have your completely individual, personalized Mike or Julia or Jarvis - the AI. This is what Google is doing under the hood and they have the upper hand because they collect absolutely everything about the user. Yea there is a lot of noise but their advantage is enormous because theoretically the more they know about you the better se…

I agree that automatically mining user data is much more scalable then building a relationship with aligned incentives, in which users would volunteer it to you.

My argument is that this is exactly the main reason for the mess on the web we are in now, and that the way forward is not doing more of the same thing that got us in this place, but doing the opposite, regardless of how hard and not scalable it is. Alas, we will at least try.

Re: The Age of PageRank Is Over

#360

Post by AndroidKitKat »

Larrikin wrote: post #354
AndroidKitKat wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My favorite feature is being able to boost a certain domain up in the the results (or even pin it if you really would like). I often search for different Pokemon and prefer the information that a site like Serebii.net gives me over something like Bulbapedia.

Is there any reason why? I'm not heavy into the game anymore but usually when I'm searching Pokemon Bulbapedia has the information I want.

I think it's just because I prefer the organization of the information, giving you things like the type chart up front and center.

It's also the site I used more as a kid so there's probably some loyalty bias.

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