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My full statement regarding DOOM Eternal

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Re: My full statement regarding DOOM Eternal

#251

Post by phone8675309 »

Asooka wrote: post #98
kar1181 wrote: post #73

If you read up on Tim Willits' time at id it seems like a proper protege took his reigns. In my early career I lamented not going into games development but goodness what a bullet dodged.

Well, there are some good places to work. I've heard Hello Games (makers of No Man's Sky) are pretty alright, notwithstanding the kerfuffle with their initial release of NMS. I've had some acquaintances working in various Ubisoft locations say it's not bad. Though even if it is a well-managed studio, you'll still have to deal with occasional crunch to meet holiday deadlines and such, plus the pay is often lower than…

> I've had some acquaintances working in various Ubisoft locations say it's not bad.

Hate to break it to you: https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-53391689

Activision, Blizzard, Ubisoft, and now Zenimax, Bethesda, and id are on my "do not buy or play" list for games.

Re: My full statement regarding DOOM Eternal

#252

Post by phone8675309 »

chx wrote: post #31
jbm wrote: post #18

Already deleted from the r/doom front page despite hundreds of upvotes. Example: https://old.reddit.com/r/Doom/comments/yqjvzu/mick_gordon_po...

It isn't, it's on the top of the page, heavily upvoted and awarded. It seems one of the mods deleted their account though after admitting they have friends at Bethesda. https://i.imgur.com/8E7bOoQ.jpeg https://old.reddit.com/user/Mr-R00T

Fuck that guy - glad he's gone

Re: My full statement regarding DOOM Eternal

#253

Post by phone8675309 »

TheRealDunkirk wrote: post #145
s_dev wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>because some gamers didn't feel like the soundtrack was good enough for their money, and started making a stink? I would compare Mick Gordon's contribution to the Doom game here to that of Howard Shore in Lord of the Rings. The experience is fundamentally limited without the music.

But that wasn't the problem, was it? They got "the music."

Honest question: are you autistic?

Re: My full statement regarding DOOM Eternal

#254

Post by sgjohnson »

agentwiggles wrote: post #4

This is really disappointing to read. Mick's soundtrack was a huge part of making DOOM 2016 and Eternal such great experiences. His talk at GDC where he goes into some of the process of creating the soundtrack is fantastic, so much fun to see the creativity he brought to the game's music. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4FNBMZsqrY The next DOOM will be a little less DOOMy without him.

> The next DOOM will be a little less DOOMy without him.

He didn’t do the music for DOOM Eternal DLCs and it already shows.

Re: My full statement regarding DOOM Eternal

#255

Post by somat »

agentwiggles wrote: post #4

This is really disappointing to read. Mick's soundtrack was a huge part of making DOOM 2016 and Eternal such great experiences. His talk at GDC where he goes into some of the process of creating the soundtrack is fantastic, so much fun to see the creativity he brought to the game's music. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4FNBMZsqrY The next DOOM will be a little less DOOMy without him.

It was a great soundtrack, perfect for doom. but that talk left me confused.

what I got out of it. he did not want your normal heavy metal soundtrack so he deconstructed music down to it's core, created a bunch of noise, layered it up to make the songs... but it sounded bad, so he had to add the heavy metal back in.

At the end I am like... so your whole process... was for nothing?

Re: My full statement regarding DOOM Eternal

#256

Post by nmfisher »

cragfar wrote: post #127

I don't do much contract work or deal with the video game industry at all, so I'm wondering was Mick just being overly understanding here about the payment issues? Someone refusing to pay me for work would instantly shut down any work I do with them. And my head nearly exploded when I read the part about how they secretly published a soundtrack that they didn't pay for, and then agreed to be pay for it only if he did…

I am 100% on Mick’s side here, but so much about this situation screams naivete and poor contracts/legal advice on his part.

He should have come down on them like a ton of bricks as soon as they announced an OST with his name on it, but that hadn’t been contracted (which both parties admit, so it’s definitely not he-said she-said).

Re: My full statement regarding DOOM Eternal

#257

Post by realusername »

enneff wrote: post #231
mywittyname wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm surprised that he can't issue a DCMA takedown of Doom Eternal.

The ownership of those works is certainly a complex issue. Contractually ownership would have been assigned to id, but what happens for unpaid work? What about works in progress? Depends on the contract terms and the interpretation of those terms. Sounds like a lot of grey areas, and there can be significant repercussions for making spurious DMCA claims.

The ugly truth is that DMCA claims are mainly a weapon against smaller creators, you can't realistically use it against big companies in reality.

Re: My full statement regarding DOOM Eternal

#258

Post by tehbeard »

somat wrote: post #255
agentwiggles wrote: post #4

This is really disappointing to read. Mick's soundtrack was a huge part of making DOOM 2016 and Eternal such great experiences. His talk at GDC where he goes into some of the process of creating the soundtrack is fantastic, so much fun to see the creativity he brought to the game's music. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4FNBMZsqrY The next DOOM will be a little less DOOMy without him.

It was a great soundtrack, perfect for doom. but that talk left me confused. what I got out of it. he did not want your normal heavy metal soundtrack so he deconstructed music down to it's core, created a bunch of noise, layered it up to make the songs... but it sounded bad, so he had to add the heavy metal back in. At the end I am like... so your whole process... was for nothing?

I mean, learning a hypothesis doesn't work isn't for nothing?

And unlike previous entries in the series, iirc, during gameplay the soundtrack reacts to the player's progress rather than just being there in the background.

Re: My full statement regarding DOOM Eternal

#259

Post by RagnarD »

It’s a horrific story and should be a cautionary tale for anyone doing contract work. A lot can be said but a few things come to mind:

1) To call this Marty character shit would be an insult to shit. Mick made the mistake of considering him to be an honest individual who can be reasoned with. It’s disgusting that Marty’s employer hasn’t fired him so hard that he goes into orbit.

2) Mick should have a ruthless business manager interfacing to clients and handling contracts and payments.

Re: My full statement regarding DOOM Eternal

#260

Post by yrro »

fleddr wrote: post #211
tibbon wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also really wonder WTF is wrong with people. Even children should know to not harass someone for any reason, let alone that perhaps that person had conflict while working on a game they enjoy. I cannot imagine ever going after someone like that, under any circumstance.

You know what the most disturbing thing is? "Normal" people do this. We're picturing villains, hateful characters, people with severe mental shortcomings. Deeply traumatized personalities looking for some retaliation. Nope. It's your neighbor. That kind middle-aged guy walking his dog. The one that is considerate and intelligent enough to know better. Several years back a dutch TV show proved this point. They did det…

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