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TikTok’s greatest asset isn’t its algorithm, it’s your phone

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Re: TikTok’s greatest asset isn’t its algorithm, it’s your phone

#261

Post by mcculley »

thatguy0900 wrote: post #253
mcculley wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am quite skeptical of this. There would have to be an API. There would have to be documentation for that. There would likely be keys assigned to individual apps.

Couldn't they just send the government 'ID #11111 has played our game for 30 minutes' and 'ID#11111 is requesting a login how much time do they have left' and let the gov track the specifics

Of course they could. It would obviously be an enormous security problem. Apps would have to know the government ID of children. Nefarious entities could stage denial-of-service attacks against individuals.

Obviously China could do this. I am skeptical of the claim presented as hearsay without evidence.

If such a system exists, there should be easily found documentation for it.

Re: TikTok’s greatest asset isn’t its algorithm, it’s your phone

#262

Post by thatguy0900 »

mcculley wrote: post #261
thatguy0900 wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Couldn't they just send the government 'ID #11111 has played our game for 30 minutes' and 'ID#11111 is requesting a login how much time do they have left' and let the gov track the specifics

Of course they could. It would obviously be an enormous security problem. Apps would have to know the government ID of children. Nefarious entities could stage denial-of-service attacks against individuals. Obviously China could do this. I am skeptical of the claim presented as hearsay without evidence. If such a system exists, there should be easily found documentation for it.

"In addition, minors were required to use their real names and national identification numbers when they logged on to play and companies like Tencent and NetEase (9999.HK), set up systems to identify minors.

In July, Tencent rolled out a facial recognition function dubbed "midnight patrol" that parents can switch on to prevent children from using adult logins to get around the government curfew."

https://www.reuters.com/world/china/why-how-china-is-drastic...

Re: TikTok’s greatest asset isn’t its algorithm, it’s your phone

#263

Post by mrguyorama »

therealdrag0 wrote: post #98
nagonago wrote: post #89

After hearing so much about TikTok's addictiveness, I decided to give it a whirl. I spent a good few hours trying to get a feed that was interesting to me by searching for various keywords. I was mostly looking for weird, abstract, absurdist videos, but also anything else that interested me. Unfortunately it was quite difficult to find anything I actually liked. Most of "weird tiktok" seemed to be a teenager's idea o…

I found my way into YouTube shorts since I already use YT a lot and it knew what I liked. Realizing it’s a TK ripoff, and seeing funny TKs shared, I figure TikTok must be way better, so I tried it. But I had the same experience as you: it didn’t click. Maybe if I had replicated my YouTube subscriptions (some are on both) it would have worked better, but I tried telling it my interests and hoping “the algorithm” would…

I've now collected several different creators who are one both platforms, and without exception I prefer their content on YouTube over TikTok. You just can't compare the quality level expected for youtube to tiktok. On Youtube, if you want any views at all, you pretty much MUST have a high quality HD camera (some modern phones now count), a good microphone, good presentation, there was most likely a script written out and edited, there will often be diagrams or explanations or rationalizations for many parts, there will be digging into details basically.

Physically speaking, TikTok videos CANNOT do anything but be extremely shallow "Fast Fact" videos that just make a claim, with no evidence, no reasoning, no verification, just a "Hey I'm me and I say I'm someone and this is a factoid and either believe me or don't". These videos are great for addiction, because if you are gullible for those kinds of factoids you will love an endless barrage of dopamine inducing "Facts" that you can repeat at the next party you attend.

Youtube has similar "Factoid" videos but you will also find 20 minute short form essays rebutting those factoids with demonstrations, evidence, citations, etc. You simply can't rebut a 1 minute claim in a 1 minute video in a way that laypeople should be convinced by. It's weaponization of "It's harder to debunk that spout nonsense"

Re: TikTok’s greatest asset isn’t its algorithm, it’s your phone

#264

Post by mrguyorama »

bilsbie wrote: post #205

I feel like such an outlier that I like it and have benefited from it. I’ve learned all kinds of useful info about everything from nutrition to history in entertaining bit sized chunks. And the humorous clips are really funny too. I don’t feel addicted either. Some days I’ll scroll for 45 minutes. Other days I have zero interest.

Those things you learned, what evidence do you have that they are true, or accurate, or aren't just repetitions of common folk wisdom or Pop Factoids that always make the rounds? Where are the citations?

Re: TikTok’s greatest asset isn’t its algorithm, it’s your phone

#265

Post by xphx »

RHSman2 wrote: post #119
clement_b wrote: post #115

I think TikTok and similar products are garbage and will lower the average IQ, especially of younger generations. I am deeply concerned when I see kids hooked on that crack, because they are burning their potential. It's scary, and if I had one far fetched easy theory to make, I'd say TikTok is a way for China to mitigate the threat coming from the west's upcoming generations, by ensuring their collective capabilitie…

I interviewed for a data science product manager role (I am one) at a games company. They were doing very interesting things with generative models however the person running it’s speciality was a Phd in addiction (and plenty of work in the field) Was so interesting from an intellectual stand point but so very very evil.

A 2016 talk by Tribeflame CEO Torulf Jernström about the monetization of mobile games called "Let's Go Whaling!" also caused a bit of a ruffle a while ago.

Ominously delivered with smug smirk, met by smug laughter: "I'll leave the morality of it out of the talk. We can discuss it, if we have time, later."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNjI03CGkb4

Turns out they would have had time later but for some reason opted not to.

Re: TikTok’s greatest asset isn’t its algorithm, it’s your phone

#266

Post by mcculley »

thatguy0900 wrote: post #262
mcculley wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course they could. It would obviously be an enormous security problem. Apps would have to know the government ID of children. Nefarious entities could stage denial-of-service attacks against individuals. Obviously China could do this. I am skeptical of the claim presented as hearsay without evidence. If such a system exists, there should be easily found documentation for it.

"In addition, minors were required to use their real names and national identification numbers when they logged on to play and companies like Tencent and NetEase (9999.HK), set up systems to identify minors. In July, Tencent rolled out a facial recognition function dubbed "midnight patrol" that parents can switch on to prevent children from using adult logins to get around the government curfew." https://www.reuters.…

That does not support the claim that apps are coordinating to restrict usage.

Re: TikTok’s greatest asset isn’t its algorithm, it’s your phone

#267

Post by huijzer »

clement_b wrote: post #115

I think TikTok and similar products are garbage and will lower the average IQ, especially of younger generations. I am deeply concerned when I see kids hooked on that crack, because they are burning their potential. It's scary, and if I had one far fetched easy theory to make, I'd say TikTok is a way for China to mitigate the threat coming from the west's upcoming generations, by ensuring their collective capabilitie…

> I think TikTok and similar products are garbage and will lower the average IQ, especially of younger generations. I am deeply concerned when I see kids hooked on that crack, because they are burning their potential

People in 1991 were complaining about the same with regards to newspapers (https://www.firstthings.com/article/1991/10/why-the-news-mak...) and you can probably find the same sentiment around the time that the first magazines were published around the 1740s (https://www.encyclopedia.com/arts/encyclopedias-almanacs-tra...).

Re: TikTok’s greatest asset isn’t its algorithm, it’s your phone

#268

Post by thatguy0900 »

mcculley wrote: post #266
thatguy0900 wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"In addition, minors were required to use their real names and national identification numbers when they logged on to play and companies like Tencent and NetEase (9999.HK), set up systems to identify minors. In July, Tencent rolled out a facial recognition function dubbed "midnight patrol" that parents can switch on to prevent children from using adult logins to get around the government curfew." https://www.reuters.…

That does not support the claim that apps are coordinating to restrict usage.

"in 2019, it passed laws limiting minors to less than 1.5 hours of online games on weekdays and three hours on weekends, with no game playing allowed between 10 p.m. to 8 a.m. It also limited how much minors could spend on virtual gaming items each month, with maximum amounts ranging from $28 to $57, depending on the age."

How could this be done without coordination?

In addition: "One of the first systems required by the government was launched in 2005 to regulate adolescents' Internet use, including limiting daily gaming time to 3 hours and requiring users' identification in online video games.[134] In 2007, an "Online Game Anti-Addiction System" was implemented for minors, restricting their use to 3 hours or less per day. " https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_games_in_China

Re: TikTok’s greatest asset isn’t its algorithm, it’s your phone

#269

Post by bilsbie »

mrguyorama wrote: post #264
bilsbie wrote: post #205

I feel like such an outlier that I like it and have benefited from it. I’ve learned all kinds of useful info about everything from nutrition to history in entertaining bit sized chunks. And the humorous clips are really funny too. I don’t feel addicted either. Some days I’ll scroll for 45 minutes. Other days I have zero interest.

Those things you learned, what evidence do you have that they are true, or accurate, or aren't just repetitions of common folk wisdom or Pop Factoids that always make the rounds? Where are the citations?

Isn’t that true of any source of information?

Re: TikTok’s greatest asset isn’t its algorithm, it’s your phone

#270

Post by mcculley »

thatguy0900 wrote: post #268
mcculley wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That does not support the claim that apps are coordinating to restrict usage.

"in 2019, it passed laws limiting minors to less than 1.5 hours of online games on weekdays and three hours on weekends, with no game playing allowed between 10 p.m. to 8 a.m. It also limited how much minors could spend on virtual gaming items each month, with maximum amounts ranging from $28 to $57, depending on the age." How could this be done without coordination? In addition: "One of the first systems required by…

Yes, coordination between apps would be the hard part and I see no evidence that it exists. There is a lot of writing in English that does not point to anything canonical from China. It does not make clear exactly what obligations are placed on app developers. I remain skeptical that coordination between applications is happening.

I would love to see any evidence of this. It should be easy if it exists as there would be documentation telling app developers how to use the central database. I would imagine an ecosystem of libraries would exist to make it easier for app developers to satisfy these obligations.

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