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Does anyone know the names of the key people behind Rosetta 2? In my experience, exceptionally well executed tech like this tends to have 1-2 very talented people leading. I'd like to follow their blog or Twitter.
I hope Rosetta is here to stay and continues developement. And I hope what is learned from it can be used to make a RISC-V version of it. translating native ARM to RISC-V should be much easier than x86 to ARM as I understand it, so one could conceivably do x86 -> ARM -> RISC-V.
> I hope Rosetta is here to stay and continues developement. It almost certainly is not. Odds are Apple will eventually remove Rosetta II, as they did Rosetta back in the days, once they consider the need for that bridge to be over (Rosetta was added in 2006 in 10.4, and removed in 2011 from 10.7). > And I hope what is learned from it can be used to make a RISC-V version of it. translating native ARM to RISC-V should…
Did you only start counting from 2007 when the iPhone was released? All the iPods prior to that were using ARM processors. The Apple Newton was using ARM processors.
Rosetta 2 is great, except it apparently can't run statically-linked (non-PIC) binaries. I am unsure why this limitation exists, but it's pretty annoying because Virgil x86-64-binaries cannot run under Rosetta 2, which means I resort to running on the JVM on my M1...
Interestingly, it supports statically-linked x86 binaries when used with Linux.
"Rosetta can run statically linked x86_64 binaries without additional configuration. Binaries that are dynamically linked and that depend on shared libraries require the installation of the shared libraries, or library hierarchies, in the Linux guest in paths that are accessible to both the user and to Rosetta."
https://developer.apple.com/documentation/virtualization/run...
I remember years ago when Java adjacent research was all the rage, HP had a problem that was “Rosetta lite” if you will. They had a need to run old binaries on new hardware that wasn’t exactly backward compatible. They made a transpiler that worked on binaries. It might have even been a JIT but that part of the memory is fuzzy. What made it interesting here was that as a sanity check they made an A->A mode where they…
If JIT-ing a statically compiled input makes it faster, does that mean that JIT-ing itself is superior or does it mean that the static compiler isn't outputting optimal code? (real question. asked another way, does JIT have optimizations it can make that a static compiler can't?)
An easy example is code compiled for 386 running on a 586. The A->A compiler can use CPU features that weren't available to the 386. As with PGO you have branch prediction information that's not available to the static compiler. You can statically compile the dynamically linked dependencies, allowing inlining that wasn't previously available.
On the other hand you have to do all of that. That takes warmup time just like a JIT.
I think the road to enlightenment is letting go of phrasing like "is superior". There are lots of upsides and downsides to pretty much every technique.
> Rosetta 2 translates the entire text segment of the binary from x86 to ARM up-front. Do I understand correctly that the Rosetta is basically a transpiler from x86-64 machine code to ARM machine code which is run prior to the binary execution? If so, does it affect the application startup times?
The first load is fairly slow, but once it's done it every load after that is pretty much identical to what it'd be running on an x86 mac due to the caching it does.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I hope Rosetta is here to stay and continues developement. It almost certainly is not. Odds are Apple will eventually remove Rosetta II, as they did Rosetta back in the days, once they consider the need for that bridge to be over (Rosetta was added in 2006 in 10.4, and removed in 2011 from 10.7). > And I hope what is learned from it can be used to make a RISC-V version of it. translating native ARM to RISC-V should…
> They've got 15 years experience Did you only start counting from 2007 when the iPhone was released? All the iPods prior to that were using ARM processors. The Apple Newton was using ARM processors.
My aotool project uses a trick to extract the AOT binary without root or disabling SIP: https://github.com/lunixbochs/meta/tree/master/utils/aotool
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I finally started seriously using a M1 work laptop yesterday, and I'm impressed. More than twice as fast on a compute-intensive job as my personal 2015 MBP, with a binary compiled for x86 and with hand-coded SIMD instructions.
It helps that there were almost 2 years between the release and your adoption. I had a very early M1 and it was not too bad, but there were issues. I knew that going in.
Does anyone know the names of the key people behind Rosetta 2? In my experience, exceptionally well executed tech like this tends to have 1-2 very talented people leading. I'd like to follow their blog or Twitter.
The original Rosetta was written by Transitive, which was formed by spinning a Manchester University research group out. See https://www.software.ac.uk/blog/2016-09-30-heroes-software-e... I know a few of their devs went to ARM, some to Apple & a few to IBM (who bought Transitive). I do know a few of their ex staff (and their twitter handles), but I don’t feel comfortable linking them here.