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Why is Rosetta 2 fast?

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71–80 of 367 posts

Re: Why is Rosetta 2 fast?

#71
post #17

It is quite astonishing how seamless Apple has managed to make the Intel to ARM transition, there are some seriously smart minds behind Rosetta. I honestly don't think I had a single software issue during the transition!

They've almost made it too good. I have to run software that ships an x86 version of CPython, and it just deeply offends me on a personal level, even though I can't actually detect any slowdown (probably because lol python in the first place)

Re: Why is Rosetta 2 fast?

#72
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I hope Rosetta is here to stay and continues developement. It almost certainly is not. Odds are Apple will eventually remove Rosetta II, as they did Rosetta back in the days, once they consider the need for that bridge to be over (Rosetta was added in 2006 in 10.4, and removed in 2011 from 10.7). > And I hope what is learned from it can be used to make a RISC-V version of it. translating native ARM to RISC-V should…

> They've got 15 years experience and essentially full control on ARM. Do they? ARM made it very clear that they consider all ARM cores their own[1] [1]: https://www.theregister.com/2022/11/07/opinion_qualcomm_vs_a...

Apple is in a somewhat different position to Qualcomm in that they were a founding member of ARM. I've also heard rumours that aarch64 was designed by apple and donated to ARM (hence why apple was so early to release an aarch64 processor). So I somewhat doubt ARM will be a position to sue them any time soon.

Re: Why is Rosetta 2 fast?

#73
post #17

It is quite astonishing how seamless Apple has managed to make the Intel to ARM transition, there are some seriously smart minds behind Rosetta. I honestly don't think I had a single software issue during the transition!

It isn't their first rodeo: 68k->PPC->x86_64->ARM.

You gotta think there's been a lot of churn and lost knowledge at the company between PPC->x86_64 (2006) and now though.

Re: Why is Rosetta 2 fast?

#74
post #50

Back in the early days of Windows NT everywhere, the Alpha version had a similar JIT emulation. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/FX!32 Or for a more technical deep dive, https://www.usenix.org/publications/library/proceedings/usen...

OMG I forgot about FX!32. My first co-op was as a QA tester for the DEC Multia, which they moved from the Alpha processor to Intel midway through. I did a skunkworks project for the dev team attempting to run the newer versions of Multia's software (then Intel-based) on older Alpha Multias using FX!32. IIRC it was still internal use only/beta, but it worked quite well!

Re: Why is Rosetta 2 fast?

#75
post #28
post #8

Apple is doing some really interesting but really quiet work in the area of VMs. I feel like we don’t give them enough credit but maybe they’ve put themselves in that position by not bragging enough about what they do. As a somewhat related aside, I have been watching Bun (low startup time Node-like on top of Safari’s JavaScript engine) with enough interest that I started trying to fix a bug, which is somewhat unusua…

> feel like we don’t give them enough credit but maybe they’ve put themselves in that position by not bragging enough about what they do. And maybe also by keeping the technology closed and Apple-specific. Many people who could be interested in using it don't have access to it.

Exactly. As someone who would be very interested in this, but don't use Apple products, it's just not exciting because it's not accessible to me (I can't even test it as a user). If they wanted to write a whitepaper about it to share knowledge, that might be interesting, but given that it's Apple I'm not gonna hold my breath.

Re: Why is Rosetta 2 fast?

#76
Does anyone know the names of the key people behind Rosetta 2?

In my experience, exceptionally well executed tech like this tends to have 1-2 very talented people leading. I'd like to follow their blog or Twitter.

Re: Why is Rosetta 2 fast?

#78
post #51
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> feel like we don’t give them enough credit but maybe they’ve put themselves in that position by not bragging enough about what they do. And maybe also by keeping the technology closed and Apple-specific. Many people who could be interested in using it don't have access to it.

WebKit B3 is open source: https://webkit.org/docs/b3/

[deleted]

Re: Why is Rosetta 2 fast?

#79
post #17

It is quite astonishing how seamless Apple has managed to make the Intel to ARM transition, there are some seriously smart minds behind Rosetta. I honestly don't think I had a single software issue during the transition!

Since this is the company's third big arch transition, cross-compilation and compatibility is probably considered a core competency for Apple to maintain internally.

Re: Why is Rosetta 2 fast?

#80
post #17

It is quite astonishing how seamless Apple has managed to make the Intel to ARM transition, there are some seriously smart minds behind Rosetta. I honestly don't think I had a single software issue during the transition!

It isn't their first rodeo: 68k->PPC->x86_64->ARM.

But they've been on x84_64 for a long time. How much of that knowledge is still around? Probably some traces of it have been institutionalized but it isn't the same as if they just grabbed the same team and made them do it again a year after the least transition.
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