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A requiem for amateur chemistry

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Re: A requiem for amateur chemistry

#131

Post by TchoBeer »

DrAwdeOccarim wrote: post #127
photochemsyn wrote: post #53

The youtube channel Cody's Lab certainly deserves a mention here. For example, the extraction of iodine from seaweed is an excellent 10-min watch. It's mostly on the inorganic side, just search the channel for a random element and something interesting will pop up - try potassium, iron, silver, bromine, gallium, etc. https://www.youtube.com/user/theCodyReeder/featured (Should note however, that demonstrating robust s…

Ctrl-F for "waste" only turned up your comment. Waste management of all the experiments the article describes had me wincing as an industrial chemist. I'd say it's not so much the safety of home chemistry that keeps me away from introducing it to my kids as much as the sheer complexity of disposing of all these myriad chemicals and reactions. My guess is that's the main culprit in removing most interesting chemicals…

How dangerous for most waste products is it to put them in a sealed glass container and then in a sealed box and then bury it in the backyard.

Re: A requiem for amateur chemistry

#133

Post by jrochkind1 »

jrochkind1 wrote: post #12

> It is equally difficult to source ideas for the curriculum. Many classic amateur chemistry books are out of print, and there is little incentive to publish more. So then! My place of work, the Science History Institute, has a number of old amateur chemistry experiment books digitized online and freely accessible. My job includes developing and managing the web site/app we use to manage our digitized content and pre…

Another bonus, how about a 1901 booklet on "New Methods of Testing Explosives"?

https://digital.sciencehistory.org/works/70rgtuf

Re: A requiem for amateur chemistry

#135

Post by QuadmasterXLII »

melony wrote: post #96
majormajor wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually-educational things for kids haven't gone away entirely, though they've certainly changed shape. There are a lot of kids and teenager related products around programming and microcontroller-related hobby projects that teach and require deeper understanding of the concepts. Building a radio, on the other hand, when AM/FM radio is now 90-100 years old instead of 20-30... that wouldn't interest me nearly as much…

The mathematics of radios are a lot more difficult than the basic boolean logic and discrete math for intro to programming. Radios and circuits are in differential equations territory. A thorough explanation of the RF concept of "ground" and transmission lines is impossible to do at the high school level without handwaving away most of the details.

I may be showing my filter bubble, but what fraction of highschoolers get to first order systems of linear differential equations? We heavily covered them in BC calc but I guess I don't know if that's the curriculum or my teacher going the extra mile

Re: A requiem for amateur chemistry

#136

Post by Aunche »

MarkusWandel wrote: post #121
Aunche wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> By my time in the 1970s, home electronics projects aimed at teenagers had devolved to "Stick this here, and that there, and connect the battery, and gee whiz isn't that neat!" I'm much younger than you, but that wasn't my experience at all. My dad got me this kit [1] when I was in fifth grade, and it was great. I got completely lost when it talked about transistors, but the projects were still fun (considering my v…

Is that the one with the good manual? Most of these spring clip electronics sets come with pretty crappy manuals, very light on theory and with uninspired circuits (i.e. in "130 in 1" there are maybe 10 good circuits and endless variations of those). Whereas an Elenco brand kit I found at the thrift store came with a fantastic manual, that taught electronics right from the basics, using the kit's components to illust…

>an Elenco brand kit

That's the one that I linked! I managed to find their manual online.

https://www.manualslib.com/manual/235888/Elenco-Electronics-...

Re: A requiem for amateur chemistry

#137

Post by WastingMyTime89 »

melony wrote: post #96
majormajor wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually-educational things for kids haven't gone away entirely, though they've certainly changed shape. There are a lot of kids and teenager related products around programming and microcontroller-related hobby projects that teach and require deeper understanding of the concepts. Building a radio, on the other hand, when AM/FM radio is now 90-100 years old instead of 20-30... that wouldn't interest me nearly as much…

The mathematics of radios are a lot more difficult than the basic boolean logic and discrete math for intro to programming. Radios and circuits are in differential equations territory. A thorough explanation of the RF concept of "ground" and transmission lines is impossible to do at the high school level without handwaving away most of the details.

RLC circuits and the associated differential equations definitely were part of the high-school curriculum when I was there fifteen years ago. That’s 90% of what you need for an intro to RF concept.

My understanding is that the US doesn’t require a lot of maths in high school which might explain why people view this later there.

Re: A requiem for amateur chemistry

#138

Post by jerf »

QuadmasterXLII wrote: post #135
melony wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The mathematics of radios are a lot more difficult than the basic boolean logic and discrete math for intro to programming. Radios and circuits are in differential equations territory. A thorough explanation of the RF concept of "ground" and transmission lines is impossible to do at the high school level without handwaving away most of the details.

I may be showing my filter bubble, but what fraction of highschoolers get to first order systems of linear differential equations? We heavily covered them in BC calc but I guess I don't know if that's the curriculum or my teacher going the extra mile

I covered them in high school, but in isolation. I think it'd have to be a dedicated high school program explicitly built to cover differential equations and tie them back to physics and then also get far enough into EM for that to be the way you can teach about radios. Not even remotely all high school students could handle that and I think even in an accelerated program you'd have to consciously be sacrificing something else to get there, e.g., organic chemistry or something. There's only so much time.

I mean, even in college, the physics I took that did EM with full, undiluted multivariable calculus was considered the accelerated/advanced track. "Normal" EM worked with a lot less math.

I'm sure the 1950s kids were indeed learning handwaving approximations. That's not a criticism. You can get a long way on good handwaving approximations.

Re: A requiem for amateur chemistry

#139

Post by burning_hamster »

TchoBeer wrote: post #131
DrAwdeOccarim wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ctrl-F for "waste" only turned up your comment. Waste management of all the experiments the article describes had me wincing as an industrial chemist. I'd say it's not so much the safety of home chemistry that keeps me away from introducing it to my kids as much as the sheer complexity of disposing of all these myriad chemicals and reactions. My guess is that's the main culprit in removing most interesting chemicals…

How dangerous for most waste products is it to put them in a sealed glass container and then in a sealed box and then bury it in the backyard.

The problem with plans like this are typically the seals. It is difficult to be a good sealant and chemically stable w.r.t. a variety of solvents and environmental stressors (heat, cold) for extended periods of time. Most seals get brittle and develop cracks long before the container shows any wear and tear. Burying expounds the issue, as now you also have to worry about stuff leaking in, instead of just stuff leaking out.

Re: A requiem for amateur chemistry

#140

Post by fnordpiglet »

epicureanideal wrote: post #95
fnordpiglet wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But think about all the valuable product managers we have instead!

The valuable ones are so rare as to be counted on one hand. (And likely even if that hand were missing several fingers from mistakes in amateur chemistry.)

To be clear I sincerely do value the PMs that work for me and I work with. But I’d still rather they have a PhD in chemistry. But then again I wish we all did.
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