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The real reason you can't hire developers....

news.ycombinator.com

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Re: The real reason you can't hire developers....

#141

Post by kami8845 »

pg wrote: post #124

Ability to relocate: Open to idea, can't right away That's why few were interested.

I also thought that the results were this poor maybe not because the companies were so bad at communicating with potential hires but because OPs' resumes weren't as interesting as he made them out to be.

I can imagine that things like "Telecommuter?: Pretty please" and - as you mentioned - "Ability to relocate: Open to idea, can't right away" might've turned off a couple of the companies OP contacted.

What I would've liked to have seen was a more generally formulated and well-engineered resume that would've appealed to all but the most incompetent of HR decision makers, or even better, to A/B split test the email copy.

As such I don't think the post was as meaningful as made out to be.

Re: The real reason you can't hire developers....

#142

Post by tom_b »

pg wrote: post #124

Ability to relocate: Open to idea, can't right away That's why few were interested.

Have YC startups done well with a founder(s) remote after the initial 3 months? For example, two stay there and one moves elsewhere but is able to continue contributing at a founder-level?

Re: The real reason you can't hire developers....

#143

Post by jebblue »

jemfinch wrote: post #126

I'm going to say it because it seems no one else is. I apologize ahead of time for my brutal honesty. You need to consider the possibility that you're not as competent as you believe yourself to be. Dunning-Kruger[0] is real, and your post doesn't demonstrate the self-awareness the best developers seem to possess. Your writing is sprinkled with emoticons and rife with reduplicated punctuation, both of which (especial…

"Dunning-Kruger" "doesn't demonstrate the self-awareness the best developers seem to possess" "requisite introspective capability" "I do interviews"

Really? Do you pay bills with your code?

"To put it bluntly" "you're less competent than you think you are"

To put it bluntly you sound like a pretentious arse.

Re: The real reason you can't hire developers....

#144

Post by tlogan »

Yap - 80% will not even reply. When I was doing "market discovery" for my startup I sent resumes (real one - no fake things) to all these potential competitor to see how competent they are.

I narrowed down to two competitors and amazingly these two companies did end up leading the entire market.

In order words, the first contact with the company tells you much more about company than any other things. So if somebody does not answer on your email with resume you probably should assume they will not be around for long.

Re: The real reason you can't hire developers....

#145

Post by zbuc »

lanstein wrote: post #110
gatlin wrote: post #23

I applied to a kind-of sinking ship in Palo Alto last year. Got through a few interviews, answered all the questions right, and was gently let down. It was a stab in the dark. My friend who worked there (and, in fact, recommended me) told me the developer doing the interviews has never actually recommended a single candidate and is no longer allowed to do interviews. This could still mean that I'm stupid and incompet…

This wasn't Ning, was it?

Hey, they did that to me, too :)

I don't think I'd have taken the job anyways -- their application is kind of stupid and their employees all drink a ton of Kool Aid and think it's the best, most influential thing ever.

Re: The real reason you can't hire developers....

#147

Post by tptacek »

pg wrote: post #124

Ability to relocate: Open to idea, can't right away That's why few were interested.

I don't buy it. His explanation is more plausible.

We're on-site only in Chicago, NYC, and SFBA, and have to confirm with every candidate that they're willing to work in one of those locations. "Open to relocation" is a sequence of words that gets you past that step in our hiring process. Lots of people can't honestly promise relocation without knowing what the offer is going to be.

No, I think it's a lot more likely that he's simply right, and startups suck at returning email. I base that on grim personal experience as well.

It can be hard to keep up. Lots of people you don't want to say "no" to, and instead ask a bunch of follow up questions or offer some advice to. I end up with an email folder full of those, and a couple weeks later manage to plow through them. Of course, the experience for the candidate is (sadly): mailed, they went dark.

And we care a lot about recruiting; it is probably the thing we care most about (it's the only rational reason I'm on HN, for instance). Lord knows how bad startups that haven't realized how important recruiting is are with emails. Lots of startups still see recruiting as a hazing opportunity.

Re: The real reason you can't hire developers....

#148

Post by jneen »

davidhansen wrote: post #115
bengl3rt wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, $115k for a senior engineer? Really great "entry level" (i.e. recently graduated but mostly self taught with lots of internships under belt) is going for $110k... most of the "seniors" I know are running $200k plus.

Interesting, are you in NYC or the Bay Area? In our local market, a 7 year ruby developer would command on the order of $75k.

Please note that given a salary of less than about 80K, you are entitled to overtime pay. See the law here: http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=lab&#3... (section 515.5), with 2011 and 2012 numbers here: http://www.dir.ca.gov/dlsr/ComputerSoftware.pdf

EDIT: Forgot to mention, this is California law, so it only applies here in California.

EDIT EDIT: I'm a programmer, not a lawyer. Do your own research and talk to your own lawyer before doing anything drastic, please.

Re: The real reason you can't hire developers....

#149

Post by up_and_up »

kami8845 wrote: post #141
pg wrote: post #124

Ability to relocate: Open to idea, can't right away That's why few were interested.

I also thought that the results were this poor maybe not because the companies were so bad at communicating with potential hires but because OPs' resumes weren't as interesting as he made them out to be. I can imagine that things like "Telecommuter?: Pretty please" and - as you mentioned - "Ability to relocate: Open to idea, can't right away" might've turned off a couple of the companies OP contacted. What I would've…

The resume and letter were very professional unlike the post above FYI. All the silly text/ snark was occluded.

Re: The real reason you can't hire developers....

#150

Post by MartinCron »

up_and_up wrote: post #42
rcavezza wrote: post #12

I don't think this is why companies can't find good developers. To sum up your email: Hi, You've never met me before, but I like your company. I expect to get paid $115K to lead a team as a senior developer, but don't want to relocate in order to be with the team. I feel this type of email should get a response; however, I'm not surprised no one hired you. I'm sorry none of these companies replied. If hiring is as to…

Big point: Salary was not included in my initial contact email. That means only 5/50 companies even knew what I was looking for. "I expect to get paid $115K to lead a team as a senior developer, but don't want to relocate in order to be with the team" I forgot to add, 50% of the positions I applied to gave salary range of 80-130K. Also, I state I am willing to relocate eventually. All the positions claimed to be open…

I state I am willing to relocate eventually.

Even though the positions claim to be open to telecommuting, a lot of people (like myself) may have a strong bias for local talent. It's just profoundly easier overall.

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