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A requiem for amateur chemistry

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Re: A requiem for amateur chemistry

#101

Post by wrp »

majormajor wrote: post #87
wrp wrote: post #65

Another aspect of this issue is the apparent difference in intellectual preparedness of kids today. I think this is partly due to educational environment and partly a result of selection bias (in that accounts of the past focus on the "smart" kids). When I was a teenager, rummaging around the attic at grandma's house I stumbled upon my dad's old scientific stuff. I was shocked at the sophistication of what a high sch…

Actually-educational things for kids haven't gone away entirely, though they've certainly changed shape. There are a lot of kids and teenager related products around programming and microcontroller-related hobby projects that teach and require deeper understanding of the concepts. Building a radio, on the other hand, when AM/FM radio is now 90-100 years old instead of 20-30... that wouldn't interest me nearly as much…

Something to help appreciate the relation of science to youth culture in the 1950s is the popularity of sci-fi movies. Aside from rare exceptions like Destination Moon (1950), 1950s sci-fi was produced with no pedagogic intent. Studios churned out these movies because science (okay, sci-fi) was what attracted the teen market. In the 1960s, teen tastes shifted to horror and the film studios followed.

If you are interested in 1950s American sci-fi cinema, the comprehensive survey is Bill Warren's Keep Watching the Skies!: American Science Fiction Movies of the Fifties (2016).

Re: A requiem for amateur chemistry

#103

Post by adrian_b »

possiblydrunk wrote: post #63

It's a pity that governments have deemed 'interesting' chemistry an illegitimate hobby. Many chemists and biologists I know were inspired as kids by potentially risky chemical reactions - they were fun :). My boss grew up in the UK, relished those experiments growing up, and said they led him to eventually complete a PhD in chemistry. He later went on to win a Nobel Prize (as a molecular biologist, though). Maybe we'…

Yes, when I was a child, I also have made a large number of chemical experiments, guided by the many old books and magazines describing chemical experiments that were available by then.

Those have been among the most memorable events of my childhood, along with building various simple electronic devices. Both kinds of activities had a major influence on my later professional education.

I agree with the parent article that this seems much more difficult to do now, at least casually, unless you are already very committed to attempt to do such things and to circumvent any obstacles.

Re: A requiem for amateur chemistry

#104

Post by raverbashing »

zokier wrote: post #5

To me chemistry suffers from being actually quite difficult field. Even by doing these sorts of experiments it is difficult to build up good intuition and actually start using chemistry to achieve some specific goals; contrast to e.g. electronics or programming where after some very basics you can start building your own things

That is true, and something that I just realized by watching some Chem YTbers

Because it's like "oh look, this works like this, ok"? Then something similar doesn't work. Or works in a different way. "Oh just try the $guys_name reaction" ah yes because this guy discovered that you could do it like that (which is not a really intuitive way)

Oh look, this is actually simple to try at home. But if you try this other thing that might look similar it can kill you in a horrible way...

Re: A requiem for amateur chemistry

#105

Post by Aunche »

wrp wrote: post #65

Another aspect of this issue is the apparent difference in intellectual preparedness of kids today. I think this is partly due to educational environment and partly a result of selection bias (in that accounts of the past focus on the "smart" kids). When I was a teenager, rummaging around the attic at grandma's house I stumbled upon my dad's old scientific stuff. I was shocked at the sophistication of what a high sch…

> By my time in the 1970s, home electronics projects aimed at teenagers had devolved to "Stick this here, and that there, and connect the battery, and gee whiz isn't that neat!"

I'm much younger than you, but that wasn't my experience at all. My dad got me this kit [1] when I was in fifth grade, and it was great. I got completely lost when it talked about transistors, but the projects were still fun (considering my videogame time was limited) and in retrospect the instructions were very well written.

[1] https://www.amazon.com/Elenco-EP-50-Electronic-Playground-50...

Re: A requiem for amateur chemistry

#106

Post by wrp »

watwut wrote: post #100
wrp wrote: post #65

Another aspect of this issue is the apparent difference in intellectual preparedness of kids today. I think this is partly due to educational environment and partly a result of selection bias (in that accounts of the past focus on the "smart" kids). When I was a teenager, rummaging around the attic at grandma's house I stumbled upon my dad's old scientific stuff. I was shocked at the sophistication of what a high sch…

It is not like average teenager understood those in 1950 however. And it is not even the case that kids today were less educated either. You have today individual kids doing leetcode on pretty high level. You have then doing a lot of stuff, but it is different stuff. Meanwhile radio and circuits are not cool anymore nor new anymore. Comparably less people is even interested.

> ...it is not even the case that kids today were less educated either.

This claim could be supported or contradicted by evidence. Do you have any?

My experience is not K-12 education, but at the college level, standardized measures such as the GRE show declining levels of ability over the decades. A given score today doesn't mean the same as 40 years ago, because the test has needed to be recalibrated for a lower average performance.

Re: A requiem for amateur chemistry

#107

Post by azalemeth »

girvo wrote: post #68
wrp wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Australian law seems to be very aggressive in eliminating perceived materials of misbehavior. I'm thinking of how the laws against guns were extended to even BB-guns and slingshots. Is this an extension of the English legal tradition or is it uniquely Australian?

Uniquely Australian. I do love this country, and love living here, but the “larrikin” culture we put forward is frankly a facade — we’re a culture of rules and rule followers. Laws on laws on laws, for better or worse. It’s not inherently a bad thing, either, but can have some somewhat absurd outcomes at times. And it’s state-by-state. Queensland where I live is a fascinating mix of extremely wide reaching laws banni…

What's a gel blaster? And how do they enforce the glassware ban -- schools, universities and "protect" companies okay, but people and "improper" companies not?

Re: A requiem for amateur chemistry

#108

Post by WalterBright »

akiselev wrote: post #75
WalterBright wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mechanical engineering (I'm an ME) turned out to be very very hard to do as a hobby. Even with a complete machine shop, it takes a loooong time to make something simple, such as a steam engine. My engine finally worked, but the hours expended on it were extensive. With software I can build amazing programs in short amounts of time.

Engines usually push (their contemporary) materials to their limits so it's not really a surprise that they're harder to make from scratch. The infrastructure to make ICEs is one of the largest in the world and they are only so cheap because of their scale and production steadily getting automated since the post war consumer boom. Making that automation, however, has been easier than ever! DIY CNC designs are a dime…

That sounds pretty awesome. None of that was available when I was working on my engine. I had a lathe and a milling machine, and little skill with them.

Re: A requiem for amateur chemistry

#109

Post by atemerev »

hoseja wrote: post #97
atemerev wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Come on, I was balancing equations at the age of 8. Knowing the multiplication table is enough.

It's very easy to think up balanced reactions that are completely nonsensical and the reason for that is hidden deep in quantum realm.

It is, but this will have to wait until late high school, when kids are old enough for matrices and complex numbers and Dirac equation and the origin of 2x^2 (2, 8, 18, 32 — the electron shells etc). You still can have meaningful and useful exercises meanwhile.
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