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App Store on iOS 14.6 sends every tap you make in the app to Apple

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Re: App Store on iOS 14.6 sends every tap you make in the app to Apple

#71

Post by Vt71fcAqt7 »

derwiki wrote: post #66
Vt71fcAqt7 wrote: post #38

I don't understand people still hanging on to the fiction that Apple is some sort of bastion of privacy. Do they know that google pays Apple "an estimated $8-12 billion"[0] to be default search and as a result track almost all iPhone users' searches? If that's not "selling your data" I don't know what is. [0] https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/25/technology/apple-google-s...

I have an iPhone and don’t use Google search (I’m not logged in to any Google services actually, unless Apple Mail loading Gmail counts) so I’m pretty sure Google is not tracking _all_ users’ searches.

Yes, you are right. Additionaly, chinese users are not using google, although they are certainly being tracked. I've added the word "almost" into my comment. So it now reads:

>google pays Apple "an estimated $8-12 billion"[0] to be default search and as a result track almost all iPhone users' searches

Re: App Store on iOS 14.6 sends every tap you make in the app to Apple

#72

Post by yjftsjthsd-h »

iLoveOncall wrote: post #62
yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That you find it useful doesn't make it not an invasion of privacy.

That it's on your own app where you anyway know exactly which backend endpoint has been called by the user does. I really don't get the outrage about that, it's something that has existed for 15 or 20 years at least and is used a lot on most websites you go on. What private information do you think is sent to the vendor that would not be otherwise?

> That it's on your own app where you anyway know exactly which backend endpoint has been called by the user does.

If it only exposed information the user was already sending, the vendor wouldn't bother with the spyware.

> What private information do you think is sent to the vendor that would not be otherwise?

Depends on the app; I expect, for instance, market apps (Amazon, Walmart, etc.) to watch the user's every move to try and better model the user's mental state in an effort to get them to buy stuff that they wouldn't have done otherwise.

Re: App Store on iOS 14.6 sends every tap you make in the app to Apple

#73

Post by KingOfCoders »

beders wrote: post #24

We use LogRocket to record all interactions with our front-ends and it's awesome for trouble shooting and also invaluable for our product managers. They can see where users are struggling with the app and where extra-guidance is necessary. I'm assuming many many many other apps and web pages are doing the same thing. Nothing to see here.

Hopefully you have declared that in your privacy statement if you sell in the EU.

Re: App Store on iOS 14.6 sends every tap you make in the app to Apple

#74

Post by s3p »

MereInterest wrote: post #50
judge2020 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tracking how users use your own app is hardly malicious, in fact it's entirely in an effort to identify user frustration and solve it or otherwise improve the product. Tracking across different apps is definitely malicious, though.

Tracking how users use their own phones is certainly malicious. Regardless of whether they are using an application that you wrote, it is their phone .

That is not what is happening here. Users' on-screen taps inside the App Store app are being tracked. Not their interactions with any other aspect of the phone.

Re: App Store on iOS 14.6 sends every tap you make in the app to Apple

#75

Post by s3p »

CharlesW wrote: post #36

It's interesting that the researchers assumed turning off the transmission of device analytics would also turn off the transmission of all app analytics, whether from Apple or third parties. I also wish they would've tried Lockdown Mode, at least.

Lockdown mode didn't exist on iOS 14 sadly

Re: App Store on iOS 14.6 sends every tap you make in the app to Apple

#76

Post by yjftsjthsd-h »

yrgulation wrote: post #68
speedgoose wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple is supposed to be good for privacy.

Indeed. Asking the question not because i am defending apple, but just pointing out that this common practice. If you want typeahead there is no way around sending all keystrokes. Poor phrasing on my end.

So then it seems like the clear difference there is whether the user is getting meaningfully useful functionality by having their information given to the vendor. Although I'm not particularly impressed with the privacy implications of type ahead, it is at least an obviously useful feature in exchange for the user's information. What do we think Apple is giving the user in exchange for this information?

Re: App Store on iOS 14.6 sends every tap you make in the app to Apple

#77

Post by heywoodlh »

Vt71fcAqt7 wrote: post #38

I don't understand people still hanging on to the fiction that Apple is some sort of bastion of privacy. Do they know that google pays Apple "an estimated $8-12 billion"[0] to be default search and as a result track almost all iPhone users' searches? If that's not "selling your data" I don't know what is. [0] https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/25/technology/apple-google-s...

Disclaimer: happy iOS and Android user -- I like both platforms and think both have strengths and weaknesses. Mostly a Linux user on desktop.

> Do they know that google pays Apple... to be default search

This statement comes off a bit ironic in the fact that you are pointing out a deal that Apple has with Google -- the current steward over Android -- as a reason that Apple isn't a bastion for privacy. This irony highlights the fact that one is often worse-off from a privacy perspective in using Android -- the main competitor to iOS -- because it is built with Google as a first party.

I absolutely agree that there is an exaggeration of privacy with Apple. But in most cases, iOS does actually do privacy better than Android. Private Relay, App Tracking Transparency and Google not being a first-party in the development in the Operating System are things that come to mind. Additionally, according to a research paper done in 2021, Google collects around 20x more data (around 1+ TB every 12 hours) on Android compared to iOS (around 6 GB)[0]. Even if the methodology behind the paper wasn't perfect (which Google claims) I don't think anyone would be surprised that Google collects more information than Apple.

My opinion is that the sweet spot for privacy on a mobile device is to buy a Pixel (for the great hardware security benefits) and go with a custom, de-Googled ROM like CalyxOS and try to use F-Droid for all your apps. For those who are even more hardcore, GrapheneOS is awesome.

In my opinion, stock Android is far worse for privacy than iOS simply because of Google's first-party influence. And then if you go with a vendor like Samsung you not only have Google as a first party on your mobile device but also Samsung.

The only option left if you want more privacy on mobile than an iPhone is to either flash a de-Googled ROM, like I said earlier, or to go with some sort of Linux distribution on mobile -- both of those alternatives come with huge downsides.

(Sorry for the rant, I always find this topic interesting)

[0] https://www.scss.tcd.ie/doug.leith/apple_google.pdf

Re: App Store on iOS 14.6 sends every tap you make in the app to Apple

#78

Post by adrr »

yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #72
iLoveOncall wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That it's on your own app where you anyway know exactly which backend endpoint has been called by the user does. I really don't get the outrage about that, it's something that has existed for 15 or 20 years at least and is used a lot on most websites you go on. What private information do you think is sent to the vendor that would not be otherwise?

> That it's on your own app where you anyway know exactly which backend endpoint has been called by the user does. If it only exposed information the user was already sending, the vendor wouldn't bother with the spyware. > What private information do you think is sent to the vendor that would not be otherwise? Depends on the app; I expect, for instance, market apps (Amazon, Walmart, etc.) to watch the user's every mo…

No one is modeling your state of mind because it doesn’t work. We do look at click stream data and try to push down the number clicks/swipes/etc to purchase. Everything is done on a cohort basis, there is no value at an individual scale.

Re: App Store on iOS 14.6 sends every tap you make in the app to Apple

#79

Post by croes »

beders wrote: post #24

We use LogRocket to record all interactions with our front-ends and it's awesome for trouble shooting and also invaluable for our product managers. They can see where users are struggling with the app and where extra-guidance is necessary. I'm assuming many many many other apps and web pages are doing the same thing. Nothing to see here.

We use cameras to record all interactions with our cupboards and it's awesome for trouble shooting and also invaluable for our product managers.

They can see where users are struggling with the furniture and where extra-guidance is necessary.

Re: App Store on iOS 14.6 sends every tap you make in the app to Apple

#80

Post by croes »

beders wrote: post #24

We use LogRocket to record all interactions with our front-ends and it's awesome for trouble shooting and also invaluable for our product managers. They can see where users are struggling with the app and where extra-guidance is necessary. I'm assuming many many many other apps and web pages are doing the same thing. Nothing to see here.

BTW which App?
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