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A requiem for amateur chemistry

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71–80 of 156 posts

Re: A requiem for amateur chemistry

#71

It's a pity that governments have deemed 'interesting' chemistry an illegitimate hobby. Many chemists and biologists I know were inspired as kids by potentially risky chemical reactions - they were fun :). My boss grew up in the UK, relished those experiments growing up, and said they led him to eventually complete a PhD in chemistry. He later went on to win a Nobel Prize (as a molecular biologist, though). Maybe we'…

Don't governments allow it when it's done under supervision?

Re: A requiem for amateur chemistry

#73
post #71

It's a pity that governments have deemed 'interesting' chemistry an illegitimate hobby. Many chemists and biologists I know were inspired as kids by potentially risky chemical reactions - they were fun :). My boss grew up in the UK, relished those experiments growing up, and said they led him to eventually complete a PhD in chemistry. He later went on to win a Nobel Prize (as a molecular biologist, though). Maybe we'…

Don't governments allow it when it's done under supervision?

I recall many of the described experiments from high school chemistry labs. That was in the 1980s though. My kids did the "silver mirror" at least in recent years.

Re: A requiem for amateur chemistry

#74
post #5

To me chemistry suffers from being actually quite difficult field. Even by doing these sorts of experiments it is difficult to build up good intuition and actually start using chemistry to achieve some specific goals; contrast to e.g. electronics or programming where after some very basics you can start building your own things

The problem is that you need to be fairly far up the chain of mathematics and physics before you can build intuition about inorganic chemstry.

Oddly, organic chemistry is, to a certain extent, easier to build intutition about as the lower levels are a lot of "this reaction takes thingit A from the molecule and puts on thingit B with n% efficiency." This make organic very similar to solving jigsaw puzzles.

Re: A requiem for amateur chemistry

#75
post #5

To me chemistry suffers from being actually quite difficult field. Even by doing these sorts of experiments it is difficult to build up good intuition and actually start using chemistry to achieve some specific goals; contrast to e.g. electronics or programming where after some very basics you can start building your own things

Mechanical engineering (I'm an ME) turned out to be very very hard to do as a hobby. Even with a complete machine shop, it takes a loooong time to make something simple, such as a steam engine. My engine finally worked, but the hours expended on it were extensive. With software I can build amazing programs in short amounts of time.

Engines usually push (their contemporary) materials to their limits so it's not really a surprise that they're harder to make from scratch. The infrastructure to make ICEs is one of the largest in the world and they are only so cheap because of their scale and production steadily getting automated since the post war consumer boom.

Making that automation, however, has been easier than ever! DIY CNC designs are a dime dozen ranging from routers to pick and places to mills, there are at least half a dozen serious open source competitors for the firmware to drive them, and the welding equipment and skills necessary to make a CNC rigid enough to cut steel is more accessible than ever (designs exist even!). All the parts you need for all kinds of mechanical contraptions and automation buildouts are available from McMaster Carr with same/next day shipping in some regions and there are even low cost open source robotic arms with six degrees of freedom! Something as simple as aluminum extrusions have created a sea change in how mechanical structures are built and modified from cells in automated factories to 3d printers to automated labs. Hell, you can make 3d printed liquid cooled rocket engine nozzle in metal by uploading a CAD file and test it in Mojave a few weeks later without ever touching manufacturing equipment. /rant

Re: A requiem for amateur chemistry

#76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mechanical engineering (I'm an ME) turned out to be very very hard to do as a hobby. Even with a complete machine shop, it takes a loooong time to make something simple, such as a steam engine. My engine finally worked, but the hours expended on it were extensive. With software I can build amazing programs in short amounts of time.

Engines usually push (their contemporary) materials to their limits so it's not really a surprise that they're harder to make from scratch. The infrastructure to make ICEs is one of the largest in the world and they are only so cheap because of their scale and production steadily getting automated since the post war consumer boom. Making that automation, however, has been easier than ever! DIY CNC designs are a dime…

Steam is basically the classical example of an ECE

Re: A requiem for amateur chemistry

#78
post #71

It's a pity that governments have deemed 'interesting' chemistry an illegitimate hobby. Many chemists and biologists I know were inspired as kids by potentially risky chemical reactions - they were fun :). My boss grew up in the UK, relished those experiments growing up, and said they led him to eventually complete a PhD in chemistry. He later went on to win a Nobel Prize (as a molecular biologist, though). Maybe we'…

Don't governments allow it when it's done under supervision?

Yes, in the very restricted setting of schools, where the concept of "fun" is usually not included, but rather avoided at all cost.

Re: A requiem for amateur chemistry

#79
I finished a PhD in a chemistry discipline and I can attribute to it an early interest sparked by access to books in the school library on amateur chemistry experiments. Even then, it was an older book and pretty hard to find materials for a lot of the experiments ("available from your local drug store" usually meant "not available at all.")

Shame that fear is dominating over permissiveness and the fostering of natural curiosity.

Re: A requiem for amateur chemistry

#80
post #5

To me chemistry suffers from being actually quite difficult field. Even by doing these sorts of experiments it is difficult to build up good intuition and actually start using chemistry to achieve some specific goals; contrast to e.g. electronics or programming where after some very basics you can start building your own things

> chemistry suffers from being actually quite difficult field I wonder how much of that is inherent, and how much is artifact of highly suboptimal education? Chemistry education research has been unusually scathing, characterizing chem ed content using adjectives like "incoherent". My favorite high-school state standard insisted students be taught both that atoms are conserved in chemical reactions, and that atoms ar…

I would start the same way my high school chemistry teacher did when she said. "sometimes science isn't safe". My uncle's childhood chemistry set had radium in it. There are a lot more of us than there were back then, it is ok if some of us die in the pursuit of knowledge. It is a worthy goal, in that people like Curie paved a way to a better standard of living for the rest of us. If you can't demonstrate any cool experiments how are you going to attract future chemists? A different uncle who actually became a chemist had a crc reference that made your fingers itch just to turn the pages. I'm half convinced it would qualify as a superfund site and it was just a reference book. We worry too much about the wrong things. I'm sure all the big pharma in the water supply is fine, but chocolate has way too much cadmium!
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