The real reason you can't hire developers.... • Hacker News Board

Re: The real reason you can't hire developers....

#91

Post by bengl3rt » Wed, Dec 14, 2011, 5:14 PM UTC

nirvana wrote: post #76

I think the fundamental problem is that companies want a "Sr. Software Engineer" with >7 years of development and >4 years of development in their particular language, who also is young enough to think that "Nerf guns" and "xbox's" [sic] are an appealing "Benefit" and that aren't going to ask anywhere near $115k a year. (a totally reasonable salary, by the way, but I think you lose edge in negotiations by putting tha…

Also, $115k for a senior engineer? Really great "entry level" (i.e. recently graduated but mostly self taught with lots of internships under belt) is going for $110k... most of the "seniors" I know are running $200k plus.

Re: The real reason you can't hire developers....

#92

Post by gatlin » Wed, Dec 14, 2011, 5:16 PM UTC

mkopinsky wrote: post #80

gatlin wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was enjoying the sunset when the interviewer called me. I was on the roof of one of several buildings; climbing on and off is a feat of acrobatics involving two roof tops and these slippery metal vents. Both hands are useful. tl;dr somersaulted.

Was this a telephone interview??

Yes. iPhone 3GS is very slippery without a case, too.

Re: The real reason you can't hire developers....

#93

Post by jroseattle » Wed, Dec 14, 2011, 5:16 PM UTC

What this really reflects: how bad people are at hiring. Not at hiring poor performers, just the execution of a hiring process.

Hiring is not easy, and doing it well requires a lot of practice. Most people in the position of hiring for many startups are doing it for the very first time. And they usually suck at it.

Mostly, those companies get out of it what they put into it.

Re: The real reason you can't hire developers....

#94

Post by porterhaney » Wed, Dec 14, 2011, 5:20 PM UTC

goodweeds wrote: post #66

1998 called and they want their resume blasts back. I find work (contracts) by looking for interesting companies whose money I would like to take, then I look them up on LinkedIN to see how connected I am to them. Sometimes I ask my friends to connect me to them, sometimes I just google stalk them to find the appropriate hiring manager's twitter address or email address, then I email them, whether or not they're hiri…

goodweeds, has the best advice in this comment thread as far as I'm concerned.

Instead of spending countless hours blasting resumes out, why not do it the smart way, and make a personal connection with the person hiring the job.

No one responded to your form resume, so what. The system for hiring via web forms and resumes is broken, so what.

Bootleg the system and speak to the right people, and none of that will be a problem.

Re: The real reason you can't hire developers....

#95

Post by AdamTReineke » Wed, Dec 14, 2011, 5:21 PM UTC

bengl3rt wrote: post #91

nirvana wrote: post #76

I think the fundamental problem is that companies want a "Sr. Software Engineer" with >7 years of development and >4 years of development in their particular language, who also is young enough to think that "Nerf guns" and "xbox's" [sic] are an appealing "Benefit" and that aren't going to ask anywhere near $115k a year. (a totally reasonable salary, by the way, but I think you lose edge in negotiations by putting tha…

Also, $115k for a senior engineer? Really great "entry level" (i.e. recently graduated but mostly self taught with lots of internships under belt) is going for $110k... most of the "seniors" I know are running $200k plus.

What defines "really great"? I'm a student graduating in two years and $110k is almost twice as high as the average CS/SE undergrad starting salary from my midwest University.

Re: The real reason you can't hire developers....

#96

Post by Jacquass12321 » Wed, Dec 14, 2011, 5:21 PM UTC

dman wrote: post #30

byoung2 wrote: post #5

I had a similar experience. I just left ClearChannel last month to go work at a startup, and though I went through a recruiter to find my new job, I also applied to a handful of job postings at YC-funded startups (through the jobs link at the top of HN). I believe there were 5 total, and 2 of them had puzzles that I completed correctly. I have an impressive resume, and I was willing to relocate (I live in Los Angeles…

I have stopped doing puzzles for companies because I had the same experience everytime I solved a puzzle on a companies website. Common courtesy dictates that if you have a problem on your site that would take more than a couple of hours to solve then you should at least bother to reply personally when a candidate solves the problem (I am looking at you Quora). At first I thought it was just because my solution and r…

I think it varies from company to company. A day or two ago there was a link here on the main page to a company's recruiting puzzle. Being unable to resist such coding challenges I knocked out a solution and fired off an e-mail afterwards asking a question about their expected approach. I suspect they were getting a lot of responses. Despite that I got an answer to my question (even after the disclaimer that I wasn't writing for a position) the next day.

Re: The real reason you can't hire developers....

#97

Post by up_and_up » Wed, Dec 14, 2011, 5:22 PM UTC

nirvana wrote: post #76

I think the fundamental problem is that companies want a "Sr. Software Engineer" with >7 years of development and >4 years of development in their particular language, who also is young enough to think that "Nerf guns" and "xbox's" [sic] are an appealing "Benefit" and that aren't going to ask anywhere near $115k a year. (a totally reasonable salary, by the way, but I think you lose edge in negotiations by putting tha…

I was going to write up a summary comment, but I think you hit the nail on the head. I think there is some skewed rhetoric and assumptions being thrown around in the media like you suggest. Regardless, there has to be some honest companies with genuine/real need out there.

I will keep looking for the right situation/job anyway.

Re: The real reason you can't hire developers....

#98

Post by steverb » Wed, Dec 14, 2011, 5:22 PM UTC

shadowfiend wrote: post #60

steverb wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know about IBM, but I have worked in several large well established companies and when someone (decent) quits everyone looks around to figure out WTF is going on. I have lived through 2 mass exoduses, where a company started going downhill and the top 50% of developers all leave within 6 months of each other (often in groups). There is nothing inherently special about a startup. Many established companies hav…

That's actually fair. After I walked away from the keyboard I realized I was probably unfair to larger corporations. That said, I feel like someone leaving a 5-person company is usually a bigger deal than someone leaving a 20-person team in a 20,000 strong company. Would you disagree?

If you work as part of a twenty member team, then for most purposes that team is the company to you. Everyone else in the company is more or less outsourced services to your team.

But you're right, it is a bigger deal.

Re: The real reason you can't hire developers....

#99

Post by jarek » Wed, Dec 14, 2011, 5:26 PM UTC

porterhaney wrote: post #94

goodweeds wrote: post #66

1998 called and they want their resume blasts back. I find work (contracts) by looking for interesting companies whose money I would like to take, then I look them up on LinkedIN to see how connected I am to them. Sometimes I ask my friends to connect me to them, sometimes I just google stalk them to find the appropriate hiring manager's twitter address or email address, then I email them, whether or not they're hiri…

goodweeds, has the best advice in this comment thread as far as I'm concerned. Instead of spending countless hours blasting resumes out, why not do it the smart way, and make a personal connection with the person hiring the job. No one responded to your form resume, so what. The system for hiring via web forms and resumes is broken, so what. Bootleg the system and speak to the right people, and none of that will be a…

Good post except I don't think the OP is complaining about having problems getting hired. The companies trying to hire are the ones having problems, and it seems they're doing little to fix them.

Re: The real reason you can't hire developers....

#100

Post by dkokelley » Wed, Dec 14, 2011, 5:27 PM UTC

waterlesscloud wrote: post #35

A lot of comments here miss the point. 80% did not respond at all . They did not acknowledge his contact attempt in any way whatsoever. Not a canned response confirming contact, nothing. Nothing. I'm willing to bet very heavily on this representing complete incompetence at the organizations contacted.

I think there's an underlying issue here. I would wager that 4/5 of job postings are for internally filled positions, especially with larger enterprises with heavy HR involvement.

Let's say MegaCorp Inc. wants to promote Billy, a great Jr. developer, into a senior role for a new project. The deal is done when the manager says "Billy, I want you to be the Sr. developer for X project." The thing is that HR gets in the way and says "well, we have to make this position available publicly so that we are complying with whatever fair labor and employment laws effect us."

Those 40 companies who didn't respond probably already had a Billy lined up for the job.