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A requiem for amateur chemistry

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Re: A requiem for amateur chemistry

#31

Post by Victerius »

ekianjo wrote: post #25
Victerius wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there a primer I could read to refresh my knowledge of basic chemistry? I prefer the written format. A 50-100 pages document would be ideal. I don't mind chemical equations and math.

You can probably start with college level books since they dont really teach much chemistry in high school anyway.

I was thinking about something less expensive and beefy than one of those $100+, 800 pages textbooks. [1] [2] [3] [4] Something closer in format to the MIT Essential Knowledge Series.

[1] https://www.amazon.com/Introduction-Chemistry-Rich-Bauer/dp/...

[2] https://www.amazon.com/Chemistry-Introduction-General-Organi...

[3] https://www.amazon.com/Introductory-Chemistry-6th-Nivaldo-Tr...

[4] https://www.amazon.com/Introductory-Chemistry-Foundation-Ste...

Re: A requiem for amateur chemistry

#32

Post by Syzygies »

twawaaay wrote: post #14

When I was in my early teens I had a short period (after reading "The Mysterious Island") when I got really interested in chemistry. This kinda ended quickly and abruptly after I synthesised some nitroglycerin and actually after I tested it around our house. Fun times. Some stuff probably still orbiting Earth and I had to lie a lot to explain all the shattered glass. My parents never figured out what I did but that w…

A high school friend's older brother did PhD research in short-acting drugs that were legal because they were so obscure. We got banned from my high school chem lab after an after-hours session left a uniform white residue on all surfaces. My friend said we were mopping up water with an eraser. The VP found this explanation wanting.

I switched to math.

Re: A requiem for amateur chemistry

#33

Post by cft »

mncharity wrote: post #16

I wonder if some other country might be different? Brasil? IIRC, countries with major resource extraction industries, internationally outsourced for lack of domestic expertise, with associated lost value capture, are more highly incentivized to increase STEM graduates. Unlike the US, where the research I recall, said there's no shortage outside of programming (and PhD flexibility). And indeed without programming, the…

A country where you can order the chemicals for amateur chemistry by mail would be a developed AND a free country at the same time. I'm very interested in such an example

Re: A requiem for amateur chemistry

#34

Post by AlbertCory »

tomcam wrote: post #8
AlbertCory wrote: post #4

https://albertcory50.substack.com/p/culture-at-google-part-t... I have the talk by Theodore Gray that I hosted, where he does some experiments with fire. This was a fun one to get approval from Facilities for.

> This was a fun one to get approval from Facilities for That’s one paper trail I would love seeing Theo is like 10 different kinds of genius. From the outside anyway, that man has lived an enviable life.

I think you'd be disappointed.

Now, the paper trail on the ticket a Googler filed, asking for a pony in his office: that would be worth having.

Re: A requiem for amateur chemistry

#35

Post by JKCalhoun »

Metacelsus wrote: post #11

I owe my start in science thanks to amateur chemistry (it was my hobby in middle and high school). I almost blew myself up once, and also burned my hand with bromine. And my clothes got quite a few holes from acids (mainly H2SO4 that came from Ace Hardware as drain cleaner). But I learned so much! I'm glad my parents didn't stop me.

Let's see: spilled some nitrogen tri-iodide on the floor in my high school. Even on the following day people were walking on the dried crystals, setting off small explosions that stained the linoleum brown (or was it violet?, it was 40 years ago...).

Also burned off my best friend's eye brows/lashes when he got a little too closely at the blackpowder I had lit.

A carbon arc I made using battery cells drew so much current through the salt-water "rheostat" that it boiled off ... hydrogen? I tripped over one of the wires and the whole casserole dish full of salt water (and with a live 110-volts wire soaking in it) came crashing down, shattering on the basement floor. The extension zip-cord was already smoking at that point anyway so I suppose it was a matter time before something gave. (The circuit breaker went a few times, but that was easily resettable).

Dry ice dumped into hot water in a 2-liter plastic bottle (lid screwed on tight) gave a nice demonstration of, I do not know, the explosive breaking point of PET plastics? I thought I had invented blowing up Coke bottles with dry-ice until the internet came around. I'm still however unaware of anyone also putting dry ice and hot water in a Dawn dish soap bottle and inverting it for a nice little water-rocket (until about the 3rd or 4th time when the plastic of the detergent bottle becomes a little "work-hardened" and explodes on the launch pad).

I think I made chloroform once (Nitric acid and ... formaldehyde? I don't remember). It smelled very nice though, whatever it was. I didn't take enough a whiff to find out for sure if it was the real thing.

My dad told me about covering potassium permanganate with glycerine as a small demonstration of spontaneous combustion.

Honestly though, I'm not sure I learned a lot of chemistry. If anything, the playing around with identifying metal salts by the color of their flame is about as close as I got to Real Science™. Perhaps though I got something out of it, something for my curiosity? Maybe an appreciation at least for atoms and compounds and their reactivity?

Re: A requiem for amateur chemistry

#36

Post by mncharity »

zokier wrote: post #5

To me chemistry suffers from being actually quite difficult field. Even by doing these sorts of experiments it is difficult to build up good intuition and actually start using chemistry to achieve some specific goals; contrast to e.g. electronics or programming where after some very basics you can start building your own things

> chemistry suffers from being actually quite difficult field

I wonder how much of that is inherent, and how much is artifact of highly suboptimal education? Chemistry education research has been unusually scathing, characterizing chem ed content using adjectives like "incoherent". My favorite high-school state standard insisted students be taught both that atoms are conserved in chemical reactions, and that atoms are by definition electrically neutral. :P And the incentives around say teaching orgo, are more about serving as med school proxy, than using chemistry to achieve real goals. What might chemistry look like if taught well? How difficult would it still be? It seems a very open question?

Re: A requiem for amateur chemistry

#37

Post by excite1997 »

melony wrote: post #2

Not a fair take. If you have the pre-requisite knowledge, it is easier than ever. Just order the ingredients online (even the semi-regulated ones can be easily obtained from overseas) at prices that are impossibly low compared to the RadioShack days where everything is overpriced with value being mostly captured by thermofisher middlemen and retailers. I think the lack of science kits is because CS, iPads and coding…

Sure, it's easier than ever to break the law, but not sure that's a fair argument.

In many parts of Europe - e.g., in Germany and in the UK - the purchase of many common "dangerous" reagents is regulated and illegal without a license that isn't available to hobbyists. The government takes the view that it's simply not a legitimate hobby.

In the US, the situation is better, but some essential chemicals are unobtainable due to DEA legislation (iodine, phosphorous). Many others are subject to DHS and DEA monitoring (including KYC mandates) and a patchwork of state laws that prompted most reagent manufacturers to stop shipping to non-commercial customers altogether - and in recent years, also caused them to also crack down on resellers (requiring every reseller to attest that they will not re-ship to civilians). In the past five years or so, eBay also had major crackdowns, banning everything from sulfuric acid to potassium iodide. So did Amazon.

And that's before we get into raids on YouTube chemists, etc. Heck, Texas prohibited people from buying or owning laboratory glassware until recently. Wikipedia has a good summary.

The internet made chemistry easier for a while by facilitating trade, but that era is coming to a halt.

Re: A requiem for amateur chemistry

#38

Post by JKCalhoun »

mncharity wrote: post #16

I wonder if some other country might be different? Brasil? IIRC, countries with major resource extraction industries, internationally outsourced for lack of domestic expertise, with associated lost value capture, are more highly incentivized to increase STEM graduates. Unlike the US, where the research I recall, said there's no shortage outside of programming (and PhD flexibility). And indeed without programming, the…

I believe you can do okay just looking for chemicals via Amazon. You have to source them individually, of course. Chemistry sets for kids are, as the author states, pretty much junk.

Someone a decade or so ago had a web site that would sell you a decent chemistry set. I have forgotten the link. I believe it was sort of targeting home-schoolers.

Re: A requiem for amateur chemistry

#39

Post by dylan604 »

walterbell wrote: post #24
dylan604 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In today's world, you also do not get a knock on the door from some LEO/TLA member because you purchased a certain combination of iPads, electronic devices, but buy a combo of chemistry ingredients and you'll enjoy a nice little chat.

One justification used to promote cashless digital payments.

Any legit seller of these ingredients would be expected to keep records of the transactions with some sort of KYC. If you were procuring from someone, I would think cash would be the precise anonymous payment format being sought. Digital payments just aren't quite as anonymous as people make them out to be.
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