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American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

economist.com

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Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#881

Post by throwaway292939 »

pmonks wrote: post #539
RigelKentaurus wrote: post #437

Indian-American father here, living in the Bay Area. My wife and I came to this country with a few hundred dollars between us and have worked hard to reach where we’re at. We're far from privileged. I am 100% against affirmative action on the basis of race. I think there should be some measure of AA on the basis of economic status. It's quite personal for me this year. My 17-year old is applying to universities to st…

What makes you think he’s only going to get a great CS education at the Ivies, Cal, Caltech, Stanford, etc.? Very few of the best graduates I’ve worked with in my ~30 year career studied at those schools - it was places like UW, UBC and Waterloo that stood out to me as producing a high number of high quality, socially adapted graduates. [edit] and before anyone asks, no I’m not Canadian

I agree but this is besides the point. Race based affirmative action is still unfair.

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#882

Post by speakfreely »

grog454 wrote: post #703
RigelKentaurus wrote: post #437

Indian-American father here, living in the Bay Area. My wife and I came to this country with a few hundred dollars between us and have worked hard to reach where we’re at. We're far from privileged. I am 100% against affirmative action on the basis of race. I think there should be some measure of AA on the basis of economic status. It's quite personal for me this year. My 17-year old is applying to universities to st…

> My wife and I came to this country with a few hundred dollars between us and have worked hard to reach where we’re at. We're far from privileged. Define privileged. You came to the U.S. which means you had the means and impetus to do so. Doesn't that already put in the top 50th percentile of world population? 50 is wild speculation on my part and it could be higher or lower. I'm almost positive you are more privile…

It's odd that the focus of your post is mainly an analysis of whether he is privileged enough to ignore the injustices against his son. All of us have to overcome adversity, but waving the "life is not fair" wand at unjust practices is less useful than advocating for change to a more fair system.

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#883

Post by speakfreely »

RigelKentaurus wrote: post #781
felix_n wrote: post #710

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As long as we're talking about fair, is it fair that your son, who was given every possible advantage by his well-educated and affluent parents, is graded on the same blind rubric as a kid whose father is a felon for possessing a couple ounces of marijuana and whose mother has to work 3 shitty retail jobs? Wouldn't it be reasonable to argue that the second kid getting, say, a nearly (but not quite) perfect SAT score…

>is it fair that your son, who was given every possible advantage by his well-educated and affluent parents, is graded on the same blind rubric as a kid whose father is a felon for possessing a couple ounces of marijuana and whose mother has to work 3 shitty retail jobs? That's the exact case I made. The kid with the absentee father has worked hard, and deserves to be helped. But it's independent of race. >little dar…

> It's sad that some people can't see the difference

Some people don't want to. There's an entire political movement devoted to removing individuality from the equation and seeing people only as oppressed or oppressor races. The heroes and villains are conveniently identifiable by their appearances and any details or personal history deviations from the storyline are disregarded.

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#884

Post by speakfreely »

chengiz wrote: post #842
rayiner wrote: post #838

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> All that has happened is that the gaming Indian parents do doesnt work as well as it once did because others wised up to it. I see nothing wrong with promoting someone who has "unforced" talent, and in some cases race may be a poor way in some cases to base that upon, but in general it is not so bad. So what you’re saying is that it’s “not so bad” for colleges to pick the upper middle class Hispanic kid over the up…

1. Yes. 2. Affirmative action is not racism.

> Affirmative action is not racism

Can you share the definition of racism that you're using?

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#885

Post by speakfreely »

RigelKentaurus wrote: post #839
chengiz wrote: post #689

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We're far from privileged. Indian-American father here as well. You came to the US from India. You are probably upper caste. You almost certainly got a good quality education in India for cheap. Your parents probably had servants. You are privileged. End of story.

I have a huge problem with people looking at the world through the lens of "privilege". Seems like "privilege" is what they're looking for all the time. Also, you watered down the term "privilege" to such an extent that it has lost any practical meaning. I came to the US as it is the land of opportunity, and still believe that is the case. In my view, anyone born here, including black and brown people, has sort of wo…

It's really clear that most Americans have very little idea about what life is like anywhere else in the world. Getting US citizenship is a golden ticket for people in most developing countries and the immense government support in housing, state welfare/support programs, small business support, etc. is incomprehensible to those of us that weren't with born with it.

I understand a big part of the problem is that many US citizens don't understand what's available, but some almost everyone has smartphones and Google these days, even infrequent attempts to casually browse the internet for self-improvement will yield very large returns for most US citizens in poverty.

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#886

Post by nulltype »

the_jeremy wrote: post #768
gryBrd1987 wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Race wars have been used to obfuscate a class war. Historically minorities were prevented from being capital owners and as that changed aristocrats appealed to skin color while also routinely sweeping the legs out from under poor whites as they still do today, after enraging them stupid shit like tan suits and public protests. Thanks to inflation, moving one or two income brackets is closer to staying in the same pla…

$100k in 1985 is equivalent to $275k in 2022 dollars[0] [0]: https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/

If you use house price index instead of consumer price index, it’s in line with that OP said: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/USSTHPI

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#887

Post by fnordpiglet »

latency-guy2 wrote: post #574
the_cat_kittles wrote: post #567

Earlier quoted context omitted.

its all about you and your son apparently?

Why not? His son appears to have put forth the effort and sacrificed plenty, far more than 99% of students, and looks like his son has the smarts and grit for it as well. This should be about these people in this world. Why are you making it out like it isn't? This is quite literally THE subject. Why is his son being penalized for his skin color? There is no logical stance for Affirmative Action as it currently stand…

Racism by definition in the English language asserts racial superiority of one race over another. A policy being race aware isn’t necessarily asserting any form of superiority, and is therefore by definition not racist. I realize people want to use the word “racist” because it implies something bad being done related to race, but they fail to realize that the “bad” of racism is racial supremacy - not the “race” part.

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#888

Post by jessaustin »

MichaelCollins wrote: post #429
jessaustin wrote: post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but you're describing a complication that doesn't exist if the district just feeds everybody. I'm not saying that this is always the right decision for a particular district, just that many districts outside California have made it.

I'm not saying that feeding everybody is a bad idea. I support it actually. I'm saying that kids aren't going hungry at school in states other than California. If California solved any problem, it was only reducing the administrative costs of figuring out who needs free lunches. But everybody would be getting fed anyway, one way or the other.

I'm saying that kids aren't going hungry at school in states other than California.

This assumes a great deal about the attitudes and competences of thousands of local administrations across a nation notable for its cruelty and incompetence. There certainly are public school boards who want poor kids to suffer, and there certainly are public school kitchens that can't provide every nutritious meal it is their duty to provide.

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