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Just don’t

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Re: Just don’t

#111

Post by TheRealDunkirk »

KIFulgore wrote: post #54

Funny... my roommates and I used "just" for comedic effect in college. I was stuck writing an algorithm and asked my more-experienced roommate for help. He briefly scanned my code and said, "well, you kind of just... code it." I looked at him quizzically and just blurted, "straight up?" "Yep, just straight up code it." Then we all laughed at the absurdity. He wasn't trying to trivialize the problem, to be clear, but…

As an engineer, I once opined to a fellow engineer, I wonder how Static Guard works? And he said, "You know what causes static electricity?" Naturally, I said yes. He said, "It makes that go away."

Re: Just don’t

#112

Post by droopyEyelids »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #86
laputan_machine wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends. If you're complaining to me about your chronic condition then I will feel compelled to give you advice on things that I think might help you. That's the crux. It turns out people just want to be free to whinge about their issues without doing anything about it. That's fine, but don't talk to me about it, then. At the very least, tell me that you just want to whinge. Edit: Obviously this is to my friends a…

> If you're complaining to me about your chronic condition then I will feel compelled to give you advice on things that I think might help you. Heh, I have to admit I chuckled at that one. To be honest, I felt somewhat similarly earlier in my life. In all seriousness, I highly recommend group therapy. You will discover that no matter how much you feel "compelled" to give advice in moments when people are looking for…

You're sort of changing the subject to an easier situation.

There is a big difference between a group gathering for therapy, and having someone engage you in 'conversation' where they're cornering you to complain about their ailment.

Re: Just don’t

#113

Post by wink »

I had a coworker who, in planning poker, every time someone said "We just need to..." switch the number he originally picked for the next higher one. Very effective way to get people to actually think about what could go wrong. And no, the people who know 100% what the story was, hardly ever said "We just need to...", even before that.

Re: Just don’t

#114

Post by photochemsyn »

For the case of helping someone with a technical problem, as author notes. words like 'simply', 'merely, 'just' are downplaying the person's efforts and inherently cause unnecessary strife, discouragement, resentment, etc. Sometimes, letting them work through it for a while longer on their own is the better course.

In the situation where help is clearly needed, 'let's consider possible solutions' is a better entry point, along with 'let's ensure we don't make it worse' - i.e. take a snapshot of the current situation, store the current working file, etc. Now you've gone into a collaborative situation, and if there's a solution the person will feel like they've been a part of it, not like they're an idiot who should have been able to figure it out on their own. Makes for a much better working environment, better morale, sense of being on the team, etc.

For the person on the other end, the person who needs help, this is where keeping a log of your activities (in the lab world, this means a detailed and updated lab notebook, maybe a logging app of some kind for programming), so if someone asks the (sometimes irritating) question of 'what have you tried already' you can just point them to it.

For the case of seriously depressed people who can't get out of bed, that's a bit tougher. Cup of psychedelic mushroom tea perhaps, plus someone to hold their hand for a few hours?

Re: Just don’t

#115

Post by unsupp0rted »

nostromo wrote: post #107
unsupp0rted wrote: post #7

I get a lot more mileage out of "have you tried..." than "why don't you just...". As a recent example, I wrote a system that auto-generates PDF packing slips from an order form, to send to a warehouse for picking and packing. Yesterday a client told me to "just make it landscape" while I was explaining why "just making it landscape" won't solve the problem of giving the warehouse whitespace to pencil stuff in, becaus…

Food for thought: It's quite possible you're not understanding the client well, and are indeed wasting their time. I've worked with contractors where you know what you want and why, but the developer insists on throwing up a lot of objections on how it won't solve the problem for x or y reason. Changing the orientation of a PDF seems like the kind of request that should be straight forward and not require a lot of he…

I changed the orientation of the PDF as requested. This did not add any white space next to line items, since the line items table uses 98 % width either way, unlike when printing from Excel I guess.

This is what I tried and failed to get heard yesterday.

Also now in Landscape the cover page header takes up like 50% of the page. But hey “just make it landscape”.

What the client needs me to do, I suspect without being able to confirm because my questions are “wasting their time”, is give the warehouse a place to pencil stuff in next to line items.

So I prepped both versions, portrait and landscape with a SKU Notes column at the side, adjusting the table width and header height, etc and emailed those options over unprompted.

The portrait version shows double the line items per page and probably (?) solves the problem at hand… assuming I guessed right on limited information.

So far no reply to any of the 3 solutions.

Re: Just don’t

#116

Post by Swiffy0 »

I'll go ahead and say that a sprinkle of humor would help a lot here.

If a coworker comes to you with a problem that is trivial to you, it shouldn't be a problem in the first place for you to say "Oh just do X".

The problem lies in how the other person takes it and most importantly if the environment allows people to safely "confess" they don't know something, regardless of how trivial it is.

If it does, there shouldn't be any problem. The dialogue can continue in multiple positive ways such as "Oh that didn't cross my mind, thanks!", "I don't know how to do X", "Can you show my sorry ass how to do X?", "Just do X huh... How do I do X again?“, "See the problem with X is that I don't know how to do Y / how to apply X in this case" and "Well obviously I should do X! I was just testing you"

If it doesn't, the problem is with the environment.

When you have a problem with the environment, you shouldn't try to "solve" it by making it impossible for the problematic thing to enter the environment (censoring comes to mind), but instead teach the environment how to deal with the problem when it eventually and inevitably enters it.

Re: Just don’t

#118

Post by TheRealDunkirk »

pornel wrote: post #6

Related: if someone has a chronic condition, don't drop on them unsolicited medical advice, especially things like "have you tried yoga?", "you just need more sunshine", "you must try my cousin's healing tea!". You're not their doctor, and they haven't shared all the medical details with you. Your 3-second diagnosis is almost certainly terrible. They've heard it a dozen times already, and it's difficult and tiring to…

As someone who has suffered from migraines for 30 years, I can tell you that everyone just LOVES to tell you ALL the things you're doing wrong to cause them. As though I haven't been to every specialist I can find, and have tried -- literally -- every treatment known to man (except botox, yet).

Re: Just don’t

#119

Post by spiffytech »

laputan_machine wrote: post #106
spiffytech wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a chronic condition that comes up lot because it dominates my life. It touches everything I do, so bringing it up is unavoidable. Early on I liked people trying to help. But after years of working on the issue, I've learned how specialized my situation is and how useless most advice is for me. But friends & family don't have anything to offer besides the usual armchair advice. When I open up to someone new I a…

I think there's a misunderstanding in what I'm saying, or perhaps people aren't understanding that listening is actually quite a skill to practice and is really quite draining. It isn't free to ask people to listen to you, there is a cost associated with it. Asking people to listen but then they can't input is something I find incredibly arrogant, egotistical, selfish, basically it's a terrible human trait and I'm su…

Yeah, there could be a communication gap here. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you're talking about truly excessive situations.

The mild versions of the patterns you're objecting to don't seem problematic.

As someone who's problem might be unfixable, sometimes I just need a sounding board and don't expect actionable advice. And sometimes people just want to vent, but I try to save that for my therapist.

Re: Just don’t

#120

Post by BlueTemplar »

torstenvl wrote: post #104
andsoitis wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, exactly. The only caveat I'd offer is that sometimes this is not a good question to ask ("what have you tried?") because it can be interpreted as "are you doing anything about it?" Edge case, true, but still worth being intentional about.

Asking "what have you tried?" suggests that the answer to the question will lead to the answer to the problem. But the person seeking help already knows what they have tried, and they don't have an answer. So in the absolute best case, it's a useless question, you're just trying to get them to rubber duck it. In a less-than-great case, it'll be taken as a suggestion that they need your guidance in basic critical thin…

People are not equal in (sub-(sub-))domain experience. And we all can be distracted or dumb sometimes. Consider how powerful rubber ducking is : it works even when you're not talking to another person ! (And you might not think about doing it in a stressful situation.)

It just needs to be done tactfully. And in case it was a stupid mistake, defuse the ego issues by telling an anecdote about how you've made a similar one. (It's even helpful if it was a dangerous mistake : telling how you got punished, but the world didn't end.)

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