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Just don’t

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Re: Just don’t

#31

Post by antris »

sfpotter wrote: post #26
mastermedo wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure I agree. I’m a very outgoing extroverted person, and even I feel cut-off when someone points out they think something is super easy, especially when it’s really not easy. Just a few weeks ago at work, one of the TLs told me I should ‘just do X’, and when I pushed back saying it’s going to take a few weeks, he said ‘oh it’s just a couple of lines, I can do it in 10 minutes’. I challenged that. 5 integrati…

You missed the part of my post where I said that I work hard to create an environment where it’s OK to ask questions. My point is that it’s not just about the language you use. Not saying “just” isn’t a magic bullet. Regardless of the phrasing, there’s a lot more pedagogical work that needs to take place to build a good environment.

Yes you are correct that not saying "just" isn't enough. But saying it often works towards eroding that environment and it's unproductive towards that. That's the point of the post, not that it's a magic bullet.

Re: Just don’t

#32

Post by ISL »

geerlingguy wrote: post #20
ISL wrote: post #16

I like to use the word "just", but find that it frequently makes my writing worse. Furthermore, I find that it is often easy to write a sentence that contains the word in order to get a thought out of my head and then simply remove the word. Just give it a try someday... ;).

Now you can remove the simply too ;)

I thought about it :).

Re: Just don’t

#34

Post by Cthulhu_ »

sfpotter wrote: post #8

I mentor students on research projects. I think it can be fine to use the word “just” in this context exactly to telegraph that I think a particular task should be easy. Student says, “But what about X?” I might say, “Oh, just do Y.” It’s fine if they feel the tension of me knowing how to do something and thinking it’s easy and them not. The key part is providing a supportive environment so that they know they can as…

The main differentiation is whether it's used to trivialise a problem someone may have, especially if you're not in the same situation as the person. The mental health one is great, in that there's so many people that will say things like "just go outside" or "just do yoga" or "just do drugs".

Re: Just don’t

#35

Post by gjvc »

Interesting how single words can have such an impact. I find it jarring to hear someone begin a sentence with "So", as if they have given the current topic some thought (when 9 times out of 10 they haven't), or to hear them end a statement with ", no?" where turning a positive assertion into a question sounds somewhat underhand.

Re: Just don’t

#36

Post by Cthulhu_ »

andsoitis wrote: post #10
unsupp0rted wrote: post #7

I get a lot more mileage out of "have you tried..." than "why don't you just...". As a recent example, I wrote a system that auto-generates PDF packing slips from an order form, to send to a warehouse for picking and packing. Yesterday a client told me to "just make it landscape" while I was explaining why "just making it landscape" won't solve the problem of giving the warehouse whitespace to pencil stuff in, becaus…

> "have you tried..." Or: "what have you tried?"

Even better, since it's an open question instead of a suggestion; the suggestion itself can already be condescending or insulting someone's intellect. Even though sometimes it IS that simple, see Occam's Razor.

But really, "have you tried turning it off and on again", while a funny quote, can be quite condescending as opposed to "What have you tried".

Re: Just don’t

#37

Post by laputan_machine »

pornel wrote: post #6

Related: if someone has a chronic condition, don't drop on them unsolicited medical advice, especially things like "have you tried yoga?", "you just need more sunshine", "you must try my cousin's healing tea!". You're not their doctor, and they haven't shared all the medical details with you. Your 3-second diagnosis is almost certainly terrible. They've heard it a dozen times already, and it's difficult and tiring to…

It depends. If you're complaining to me about your chronic condition then I will feel compelled to give you advice on things that I think might help you.

That's the crux. It turns out people just want to be free to whinge about their issues without doing anything about it.

That's fine, but don't talk to me about it, then. At the very least, tell me that you just want to whinge.

Edit: Obviously this is to my friends and family. If I got talking to a stranger at a bus stop and they told me about how their arthiritis was giving them gyp this morning I would be sympathetic, I wouldn't tell them to do more stretches and eat more fish. Assume my comment is with good intentions, please.

Re: Just don’t

#38

Post by hoistbypetard »

sfpotter wrote: post #8

I mentor students on research projects. I think it can be fine to use the word “just” in this context exactly to telegraph that I think a particular task should be easy. Student says, “But what about X?” I might say, “Oh, just do Y.” It’s fine if they feel the tension of me knowing how to do something and thinking it’s easy and them not. The key part is providing a supportive environment so that they know they can as…

> Student says, “But what about X?” I might say, “Oh, just do Y.”

What would be lost if you said "I think it would be easier if you did Y instead."?

That would convey the thing you think "would be fine" without any of the negative baggage that use of "just" can carry.

Re: Just don’t

#39

Post by andsoitis »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #36
andsoitis wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "have you tried..." Or: "what have you tried?"

Even better, since it's an open question instead of a suggestion; the suggestion itself can already be condescending or insulting someone's intellect. Even though sometimes it IS that simple, see Occam's Razor. But really, "have you tried turning it off and on again", while a funny quote, can be quite condescending as opposed to "What have you tried".

Yep, exactly.

The only caveat I'd offer is that sometimes this is not a good question to ask ("what have you tried?") because it can be interpreted as "are you doing anything about it?" Edge case, true, but still worth being intentional about.

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