Live data from Hacker News

Bloated college administration is making education unaffordable

quillette.com

351–360 of 372 posts

Re: Bloated college administration is making education unaffordable

#351
post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is gross margin relevant? >Their profit (~5% as you mentioned) comes after they pay their relatively consistent operating expenses out of their gross margins. Just like in any other business. >The increased number of people getting insured is not what has driven up the insurance companies profits. Those numbers don’t add up. Their profit margin has not been driven up [0]. >It’s not competitive at all, imho. It’s…

Do you have any direct experience with the medical industry? If not, do you know anyone who has? It really seems like you are arm-chair quarterbacking your comments based on some quick online searches. I strongly encourage you to talk to folks who have worked in hospital billing pre- and post-ACA and (if possible) actuaries who work in the health insurance industry who will speak to you frankly (rather than toeing th…

> The percentage is not the issue. The absolute amount is.

Do you expect profit margins to approach 0% over time?

> If you can increase gross margin number while maintaining operation costs at about the same proportional level, then you end up with more absolute profit. So 100 premium, 20 gm and 5 profit can become 150 premium, 30 gm, and 7.5 profit.

Sure, but because of competition, this is not happening. The premium payer will shop around and choose a different insurer offering 130 premium. If this is happening, there would be clear evidence, since all of these publicly listed companies have public financials.

> is an example of hospitals feeding at the trough.

This discussion is about insurance companies, not hospitals.

In any case, I will simply rest my case that a business with low single digit profit margins is, by definition, not “feeding at the trough”. Lots of competition, low profit margins, all lead to a pretty cutthroat business environment.

I suggest people direct their ire at drug manufacturers, healthcare providers, software providers, and others in the healthcare business with 20%+ profit margins. And increasing the supply of healthcare in general.

Or people can keep wasting energy on blaming the 3% middleman, which is beneficial for the 20%+ profit margin businesses.

Edit: final note:

> - My premiums pre-ACA to now have almost quintupled. There are some good reasons to explain a small part of that increase (e.g., I’m older), but 4-5x is absurd. Way higher than inflation, and way higher than the quality of care has improved (for me specially, but also in general).

Premiums pre ACA and post ACA cannot be compared due to drastic changes in laws about the terms is the insurance. Namely, the limitation of pricing insurance on only age/location/smoking status, and the implementation of out of pocket maximums. In addition, as of 2022, the no surprises act bill means out of network emergency costs are included in the out of pocket maximums.

Effectively, even though you feel you are getting less quality of care (and you very well might be), the insurance product is much different than before with much higher (nominal) coverage, much more expensive treatment options, and more subsidies for others in the insurance pool.

Based on aging demographics and declining labor force participation rates, I would not expect the situation to get any better. Healthcare, especially labor intensive, will cost more and more.

Re: Bloated college administration is making education unaffordable

#352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yes, that was the point. No, the point was to use healthcare to buy votes. > People who could not afford healthcare, are now receiving it. Nobody I know has a problem with the concept of helping others. Nobody. Helping others might be to tack-on $100 per month to help cover the under-insured. We do this with auto insurance already, everyone pays a little more for uninsured motorists. A QUADRUPLING of health insuran…

>Nobody I know has a problem with the concept of helping others. Nobody. Helping others might be to tack-on $100 per month to help cover the under-insured. Apparently you do, if the help costs more than $100 per month. >We do this with auto insurance already, everyone pays a little more for uninsured motorists. Uninsured and underinsured auto insurance does not help anyone else, it only helps the premium payer. >what…

You are misrepresenting what I am saying as well as the reality of the matter. Calling it a tax is an indication of having bought into a false political narrative. I don't really have much more to say to you. Perhaps one day you might understand just how much damage these people have done to this nation.

BTW, and because the accusation is always made, implicitly or explicitly: I am not a right-winger/conservative. Not even close. I am driven by data and facts, not fantasies. Pure and simple. If I had to classify myself politically I would be a classical liberal. In other words, socially liberal and fiscally conservative. That, I believe, is, for the most part, the balanced formula that lifts all boats, not the madness both political parties force upon us.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_liberalism

Live long and prosper.

Re: Bloated college administration is making education unaffordable

#353

I think this relationship might be a bit backwards. Easy credit made it so demand for degrees outstripped capacity. Schools raised prices to meter demand. At these increased prices, schools felt compelled to invest in programs and administration. Also, as I understand it, the accreditation process is pretty broken in the country. Whatever the top programs are doing becomes the benchmark for everyone else to match. So…

Why aren't prices falling then due to decreased demand?

Re: Bloated college administration is making education unaffordable

#354
post #94
post #44

I think the article misses the root cause here. Drastically increased availability of loan-based financial aid means far more more money in the system, which means the prices go up. The article nails the cause of more administrators--the schools have more money to spend and need to spend it--but completely misses the reason schools are able to charge so much more these days.

It's unreal that most of the comments here are missing this. The government guarantees effectively infinite loans that can be put toward college, and prices rise to meet the supply. Cause and effect.

Except prices have continued to rise while college enrollments have been decreasing the past 5 years.

Re: Bloated college administration is making education unaffordable

#355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to nitpick a tangent, but community colleges, at least where I live, are only 2 year institutions, and don't provide full BS/BA degrees, just Associate degrees, which don't really open the same doors as the Bachelor degrees. I really wish we had 4 year institutions managed like our community colleges, though. I remember my 2 years there much more fondly than I do my time spent at a "real" university.

> I remember my 2 years there much more fondly than I do my time spent at a "real" university. Genuinely curious, what was it you liked about CC?

Well, the first thing I should say upfront is it's very possible those were just better years for me, and that colors my memories of CC with happy nostalgia. I think it was how much simpler everything felt, from the administration to the classes. The atmosphere just seemed less pretentious, while the actual education wasn't really any better or worse than the same undergrad studies I got elsewhere. Not really great, but they weren't pretending it was. It was "highschool part 2, except attendance is strictly voluntary, admission is cheap but not effortlessly free, and the faculty has greater authority/autonomy to teach".

A few things that stick out in my memory are the greater number of non-traditional students, several of whom I made acquaintances with. They had more stories and life experience than the average 18/19/20 y/old and I thought were more interesting to talk to. Also, my CC had some vocational/non-academic tracks with accredited classes available as general electives, and I enjoyed stuff like some aviation classes, where again I got to hang around a totally different group of students.

It feels like it all was more developmentally important than the by-the-books liberal arts education I got at a private university, full of self-important pep-talks by upper level college administration, and professors who were only paid marginally better than the instructors at my CC...

(I want to emphasize this is about cookie cutter undergrad studies, and leaves out the other functions of universities, which a CC obviously couldn't compete with)

Re: Bloated college administration is making education unaffordable

#356
post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> neither precious nor rare The fact that most people can name the most famous schools seems to imply they are rare. They are perceived as having better outcomes than regular state schools. Do they or dont they? If their grads do get better jobs and end up more successful - then they are genuinely better? People from state Universities end up sitting next to Ivys etc there is no difference - this is what I believe. W…

My implication is that these schools are artificially made "rare". We live in a golden age of information accessibility, and the knowledge these schools teach is by no means "secret" or "rare". Hell, Matt Damon learned it all from a library in the 90s, and he was an ill-tempered janitor. As for whether these schools are "precious", well, their students certainly are judging by the number of trigger warnings and emoti…

The value these institutions provide isn't education though. The value is prestige and networking with connected peers. The prestige is artificially rare I guess, but there are only so many connected 18 year olds. Their rareness is not artificial.

Re: Bloated college administration is making education unaffordable

#357

In the US, both college education and healthcare have become enormous taxpayer wealth extraction schemes. Everyone has a "right" to education and healthcare, therefore we should subsidize it with taxpayer money. That is as far as the politics go. We have stupidly funded the demand side of the equation to where both education and healthcare are incredibly bloated behemoths capable of absorbing all the money thrown at…

> It did almost nothing on the supply side

This isn't really true. Obamacare was integral to the push toward increased capitation. Health care insurance paying for services provided instead of patients covered leads to incredibly perverse incentives that have been a huge part of why costs are so high. Capitation solves that by aligning provider incentives with patient incentives; provide timely, high quality care and not unnecessary treatments.

Re: Bloated college administration is making education unaffordable

#358
post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think many Americans imagine the above to be infeasible and that university is somehow inherently expensive. However, university can be very cheap. Here in Sweden university education, which is here funded in the way proposed above (i.e. the government pays for it all, for those students who get in) costs the state less than high school education costs the state (72 000 SEK/a for university, 124 300 SEK/a for high…

College football isn't a cultural pillar in Sweden.

Power 5 programs pay for themselves, it's the other sports (besides basketball) that lose money.

Re: Bloated college administration is making education unaffordable

#359
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

wow, this sounds like a very extreme case study. could you detail why it took many days to fix that door?

Not easily. I wasn't the lead (this one was tackled by the official Lab Manager with the Lab Manager Title, which does matter to some people) so I don't recollect everything that went on. The alarm was intermittent and directly related to use of that door, so it wasn't like it was squawking at 2 am and annoying Security or anything. We did have to do Special Things to that door because we actually needed to prop it o…

thanks for the details! it sounds like these situations are a culmination of years of unresolved conflict clusterfucks (not uncommon in education/healthcare and other gigamega organizations ... so anything in state-federal-international politics) :|

Re: Bloated college administration is making education unaffordable

#360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems ideological to me because the government was specifically mentioned. If it were a non-profit guaranteeing all college loans, would 'non-profit' have been mentioned instead of government? I doubt it.

There were and are non-profits scholarships. They simply aren't big enough to have the effect that government has.

Can you describe what you think the argument I am making is? I think you are confused and I would like to be more specific so that you don't end up making completely irrelevant statements like the one above.
Post reply on HN