Signal has demonstrated product-death (loss of cohesive product vision), what do we use next?
My vote is Matrix. I already bridge mine to Signal anyway.
Signal Introduces Stories
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Re: Signal Introduces Stories
#52So did Moxie leave because Signal got overtaken by Feds? Why is a secure messenger adopting the appearance of social media? Doesn't this work explicitly against the entire claimed reason for not having an account system? I would love to hear tptacek's views on this.
> So did Moxie leave because Signal got overtaken by Feds? No, he worked on Signal for so long that he probably just wanted to take a break to work on other passions too - he's still on the Signal Foundation board ( https://signalfoundation.org/ ) > Why is a secure messenger adopting the appearance of social media? I'd argue that Stories (or equivalent) is nowadays a standard feature in many messengers. To more direc…
Let's not conflate "normalized" with "standard".
"Standard" implies a lot, and definitely there is nothing about "enabling two-way communication between willing participants" that requires "make available a video on the screens of my contacts in a non-directed way" to be part of the offering.
Signal is not social media. That is not its intention, nor its purpose, nor even its design. It is a messaging service. We already have a discovery feature in Signal: using your contacts, you can see who has Signal installed or not.
This feels like bikeshedding to the max, because it is.
Re: Signal Introduces Stories
#53That's cool but everyone in my family that I convinced to use Signal just stopped using it because it was their default SMS app. Now it's not.
Who uses SMS? I am always surprised when this feature is being mentioned.
Re: Signal Introduces Stories
#54I don't like this: it seems like Signal wants to morph into a social network rather than a secure messaging platform. I predict the next major features will be unencrypted public groups and API messaging access like Telegram has.
I'm not against social media fundamentally, I'm against the lack of privacy and emotional exploitation as means to sell more ads on social media. Social media could be done solely in the interest of its users, and I think that could be fantastic. So far, Signal has a reputation good enough to make me optimistic about it adding social network features.
I definitely do not expect Signal to drop encryption by default in any feature though. That's their fundamental value.
Re: Signal Introduces Stories
#55I don't like this: it seems like Signal wants to morph into a social network rather than a secure messaging platform. I predict the next major features will be unencrypted public groups and API messaging access like Telegram has.
Would you rather live in a world where Signal is laser focused on secure messaging to the point where no one uses it? Telegram is growing rapidly because it's adopting social media paradigms. I use both, and I wish I only used Signal.
About once a week I get a notification that random person X I haven't talked to in a decade is now on signal. About two months ago the super at my old apartment building got on signal and I got a notification. My late coworker's phone number finally got recycled and the new person using it is on signal too. They appear to be reaching critical mass.
Still really mad about them dropping SMS support. I'll be deleting it when that happens.
Re: Signal Introduces Stories
#56When I first opened the app and saw a "Stories" tab, I thought "oh no... not here too, ffs...". Then I immediately went to the settings and was mildly relieved (but perhaps I'm naive) to see that I could opt-out. Now I dread the day when they might decide to make it so that you won't be able to opt-out. Why can't we have nice things?
Perverse incentives to get folks to use signal more. Checking it when you get a message isn't good enough, need to get creators and influencers on the platform to let folks doom scroll. How many followers on Signal do you have?
> How many followers on Signal do you have?
As of now, Signal still has no concept of followers. My stories are at most only visible to all my contacts on Signal. In my mind this is a big difference between all the other major platforms with stories.
Re: Signal Introduces Stories
#57What the fuck happened with Signal? Why did we remove SMS (step 1 into "only criminals use this app") and then start adding stuff that has absolutely nothing at all to do with messaging? Did a federal agent start running the show with the sole mission of destroying the entire app?
Why did we remove SMS (step 1 into "only criminals use this app") and then start adding stuff that has absolutely nothing at all to do with messaging?
I think that "only criminals use this app" is always going to be used on anything that uses encryption by folks that are against encryption (usually governments for some reasons...). SMS or not is always going to be there. I don't think that having secure communication apps intentionally offer insecure communication is the right way to solve this. SMS was a legacy feature for Signal that just got removed now.
> adding stuff that has absolutely nothing at all to do with messaging?
Stories?
> Did a federal agent start running the show with the sole mission of destroying the entire app?
I just replied to another similar comment, not sure if it's the same person or not... but then I'd say...
Use Telegram! It's unencrypted by default! Use WhatsApp - unfortunately encrypted by default, but at least Meta will collect so much more metadata than you can keep track for. Use iMessage - It will upload your encrypted chat and the decryption key to Apple servers for you.
My point saying "it's the feds running it" without proof like that is not the most constructive conversation - Signal is by all accounts one of the most secure and private (not necessarily the same as anonymous) messaging apps out there with no clear competitors at the same level of privacy and security.
Re: Signal Introduces Stories
#58That's cool but everyone in my family that I convinced to use Signal just stopped using it because it was their default SMS app. Now it's not.
Who uses SMS? I am always surprised when this feature is being mentioned.
Canadians, people in their 30s and beyond, people who aren't on Facebook, random people not in your friend group, businesses. But most of all, the people who keep complaining about SMS support! What you're saying is a bit nonsensical "if I ignore everyone in this group, the group has no one in it".
Re: Signal Introduces Stories
#59Earlier quoted context omitted.
Would you rather live in a world where Signal is laser focused on secure messaging to the point where no one uses it? Telegram is growing rapidly because it's adopting social media paradigms. I use both, and I wish I only used Signal.
About once a week I get a notification that random person X I haven't talked to in a decade is now on signal. About two months ago the super at my old apartment building got on signal and I got a notification. My late coworker's phone number finally got recycled and the new person using it is on signal too. They appear to be reaching critical mass. Still really mad about them dropping SMS support. I'll be deleting it…
I really don't understand the qualms with SMS support. SMS was never secure, and it certainly doesn't become more secure when you push it through a pass-through on one app or another. There is nothing you can do to SMS to make it more secure except to send encrypted strings: but then you have the same problem of sharing secrets, etc. that requires a separate app to manage anyway.
Re: Signal Introduces Stories
#60This was almost posted here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33509571