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‘Putin’s chef’ admits to interfering in U.S. elections

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Re: ‘Putin’s chef’ admits to interfering in U.S. elections

#161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> after Putin retires He ain't retiring. The only way he is leaving the Kremlin is in a casket.

I'm not sure why everyone assumes this. It seems like he'd have much more ability to shape the future of Russia and protect those close to him if he chooses a successor and oversees the succession. He could also ensure better conditions for himself (i.e. not being executed) in case he ends up being unable to continue ruling due to sickness/old age.

> I'm not sure why everyone assumes this.

Because propaganda has convinced every American that they know Putin personally, and understand his internal thoughts and drives. Those thoughts and drives are to cause evil everywhere, and a bottomless ego that can only be satisfied by conquering the world. It's not really a subtle caricature.

Re: ‘Putin’s chef’ admits to interfering in U.S. elections

#162
post #17

The timing of this information suggests that while it may be true, its very disclosure may also be meddling in foreign elections -- i.e. casting doubt on their legitimacy helps many within the US who are actively trying to propagate that narrative. EDIT: A word

Russian interference is a pretty one sided thing. If it happened, it was to Trump benefit. Such declaration will be dismissed by conservatives as Democrat narrative. And democrats will just get comforted in their position. Russia would be stupid to say anything that would help democrats. They would be much better off with a republican house and senate. I think there are smarter things to say if they wanted to muddy t…

It is officially documented that Russia's campaigns have supported varying ideologies. While they do have some preference for foreign policy, it is also in their interest to increase division.

Re: ‘Putin’s chef’ admits to interfering in U.S. elections

#163

Quoted post unavailable.

> The Russia-gate was always a laughable hoax

Don't know why I'm going to bother, but from the intro to Volume 1 of the Mueller Report:

"The Russian government interfered in the 2016 presidential election in sweeping and systematic fashion. Evidence of Russian government operations began to surface in mid-2016. In June, the Democratic National Committee and its cyber response team publicly announced that Russian hackers had compromised its computer network. Releases of hacked materials—hacks that public reporting soon attributed to the Russian government—began that same month. Additional releases followed in July through the organization WikiLeaks, with further releases in October and November."

Re: ‘Putin’s chef’ admits to interfering in U.S. elections

#164

> Russian companies were charged in the U.S. with operating a covert social media campaign aimed at fomenting discord and dividing American public opinion This is key here and I think we should all take note because I see comments here that feed into their tactics. Their goal isn't to have a specific election winner, but to divide us as a nation (not just US but all Westerners and even countries like Japan) and creat…

> The point is to further political extremism, on both sides, and to create in fighting so that no united formation can stand against them.

> So the question is how to fight against this.

I think our political parties and media are responsible for 99% of the political extremism, unwillingness to compromise, and placing their self interests over the well being of the country.

And frankly, I think posts like yours contribute to the problem. Rather than taking responsibility as a country for where we are, we constantly resort to blaming external actors. If not the Taliban, then now Russia. Or we blame China.

And the narrative from those in power is always the same. The Taliban isn’t attacking us for our freedom? Well you support terrorists then. Russia isn’t responsible for Trump getting elected? You must be a Russian shill. You say Russia did exactly what they said they would do if NATO didn’t stop expanding eastwards? Oh you’re a traitor or must work at a Russian troll farm.

No. Take responsibility for once. We’re in this situation because of our own fault. We elected leaders who divide us. In the last election, the party of liberal and forward thinking ideas elected a man who’s been in politics longer than my children and grand children have been alive. What new ideas does this man have? What’s he going to do now in the executive branch that he couldn’t influence his party to do over his many, many decades long career? Is all that Russias fault too?

To be frank: I don’t care for either party. I’m just tired of the constant blame game and passing on the buck to someone else.

Re: ‘Putin’s chef’ admits to interfering in U.S. elections

#165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess I should say... after Putin is gone, one way or another. He's 70, it's not going to be forever.

He could potentially still hold power for decades to come, into his 90s. So forever? No, obviously not. But we might have to look at him for a long time.

Well, life expectancy for Russian males is below 70 - of course Putin has the best medical care, but I doubt steroids etc. can keep him for too long.

Re: ‘Putin’s chef’ admits to interfering in U.S. elections

#166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Biden, and presumably every other governmental official in every nation who truly believes in democracy, wasn't saying that Bolsonaro should step down regardless of whether he lost. They were saying he should step down if he lost. Basically, don't retain power by civil war. If the election you won legitimized your government, the election you lost legitimizes Lula's government.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/may/05/cia-director-b... CIA person "urging" a president of a soverign country to stop doubting voting machines? Calling his doubts "baseless"? I mean, the USA has paper ballots to this day because of the exact same "baseless" doubts. It's essentially world wide consensus that voting machines are a bad idea, some countries straight up declared them unconstitutional. But these US…

If Brazil is anything like the US, there are many, many safeguards in place whenever an election machine is certified and used.

Baseless means without evidence. So when a politician is yelling at his fans that the machines overturned the results of the election, and no one has found evidence of it, you should doubt those claims.

In other words, through certification and audits there is a lot more evidence the machines worked properly than the feelings you are using for making your decisions.

Re: ‘Putin’s chef’ admits to interfering in U.S. elections

#167
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, everyone's so mortified when the US has been legitimately couping South American nations for a few decades. Like election interference is just an aspect of the global political chess game. America isn't immune from it just because we're "egalitarian" (which it really isn't, we have terrible health outcomes and literacy that have been spackled over by large financial success, we're essentially seeing our decline…

After the cold war ended (last three decades), I'm not sure of any case where America has been coup'ing countries in South America. Do you know some cases?

Ecuador (Morales), Brazil (Rouseff), Honduras (Zelaya) off the top of my head. They certainly tried their best in Venezuela.

edit: oh, I spaced out, you're asking about the last three decades? I thought you were asking about the last few years.

Re: ‘Putin’s chef’ admits to interfering in U.S. elections

#168
post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comment comes off as malinformation. Malinformation isn't information that is incorrect, but correct information used in a way to create a misleading context. There's 2 problems here. 1) You're implicitly dismissive of a foreign government interfering in our elections. I think most of us here will agree that any interference from any entity is not okay. 2) It muddles the conversation with more noise. A more in d…

> malinformation Please do not normalize the use of a term that is being pushed by the government to justify censoring information they don’t like [1]. I understand that there is such a thing as “true information presented out of context in a manner meant to mislead”, and I even grant that the comment might be guilty of it. But “malinformation” and “misinformation” are just becoming labels for “information that is in…

I'm not a latin expert, but "malinformation" seems like an etomogically perfect word to describe a "whataboutism"

Re: ‘Putin’s chef’ admits to interfering in U.S. elections

#169

Fun fact, many, many other foreign governments have "interfered" in our elections also. In addition the US has interfered in their elections as well. Its been happening for a very long time.

This comment comes off as malinformation. Malinformation isn't information that is incorrect, but correct information used in a way to create a misleading context. There's 2 problems here. 1) You're implicitly dismissive of a foreign government interfering in our elections. I think most of us here will agree that any interference from any entity is not okay. 2) It muddles the conversation with more noise. A more in d…

You didn't engage with the other person's point at all, you just called it "malinformation". Looking forward to the spread of this one. I'm expecting it to triple "whataboutism".

Re: ‘Putin’s chef’ admits to interfering in U.S. elections

#170
post #154

> Russian companies were charged in the U.S. with operating a covert social media campaign aimed at fomenting discord and dividing American public opinion This is key here and I think we should all take note because I see comments here that feed into their tactics. Their goal isn't to have a specific election winner, but to divide us as a nation (not just US but all Westerners and even countries like Japan) and creat…

So much of this. A lot of us underestimate how powerful modern propoganda is and how easy it is to manipulate people. A lot of research been done on human behavior and phychology in recent decades and opressive regimes makes good use of it. It takes time, but unfortunately it's still possible to turn a lot of normal people into zombies on Nazi Germany level. With internet and social networks spreading all kind of man…

> If someone thinks that living in democracy alone makes you immune to propoganda that just not the case.

I think more commonly what people do is see propaganda that is ineffective on them and inaccurately conclude that propaganda overall is ineffective on them. Often citing their intelligence. In reality you just weren't the target of said propaganda. We're all vulnerable to it, no matter your IQ. If one wants to demonstrate their intelligence they need to demonstrate their realization of their (intellectual) weaknesses. This is what I see happen with HN users a lot: "Well I'm not vulnerable to it, but others are." (often in context of ads and discussions of surveillance capitalism. But that's the same tool as in this discussion).

> it's crucial to keep political discussion alive even if society is really polarized.

Importantly that said conversation is done with good faith. Meaning we try our hardest as the listener to interpret the intent of the speaker's words (and vise versa). These people will sell simple solutions to complex problems. Unfortunately complex problems require complex solutions and nuanced discussion. Because of that, it is critical that we discuss from different points of views.

> Disclaimer: I am Russia citizen

The difference between you and me is smaller than the distance between us and our respective leaders. An old cold war hippy saying, but still true. It is our leaders who cause good men to go to war. To live through atrocities that need not be. Atrocities worse than hell. But in the end we are accountable because we are the power that they wield. A sheep tricked by a wolf in sheep's clothing is still a dead sheep. We can't always rely on the shepherd to keep us alive.

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