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‘Putin’s chef’ admits to interfering in U.S. elections

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Re: ‘Putin’s chef’ admits to interfering in U.S. elections

#151

Post by ihatepython »

subsubzero wrote: post #9

Fun fact, many, many other foreign governments have "interfered" in our elections also. In addition the US has interfered in their elections as well. Its been happening for a very long time.

Yes. Nobody seems to care that the US interfered in the 2000 Russian election. Putin came to power as a result of the US interference, after blackmailing Boris Yeltsin and forcing him to step down. In effect, the US is responsible for putting Putin in power. The media demonizes Putin getting everybody to hate him, and the average person (including HN) goes along with it, because they don't know any better, even though HN considers itself to be smarter than the average person.

Re: ‘Putin’s chef’ admits to interfering in U.S. elections

#152

Post by molotovh »

factsarelolz wrote: post #107
ethanbond wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think Russia has no preferences between option a) party that has been providing Ukraine with weapons systems that are demolishing their military and option b) party that has vowed to end all aid to Ukraine? Really? The war in Ukraine is obviously the #1 most important, most critical issue for Putin right now . It is as close to do-or-die as a dictatorial nationstate can get and the situation is getting worse by t…

> Really? If someone were to believe what you're saying is true then Putin would have invaded Ukraine under a Republican President, Trump. Russia only seems to fuck with Ukraine when a Democrat is President. Why would Putin invade Ukraine or fuck with Ukraine when the party in power hates Russia and will spend untold billions to stop Russia. Your argument makes absolutely no sense.

The party that spent 20 years complaining about the billions we spent on military support to prop up corrupt but US-friendly regimes now claims that not spending billions to prop up a corrupt but US-friendly regime is evidence of collaboration with the enemy.

Re: ‘Putin’s chef’ admits to interfering in U.S. elections

#153

Post by none_to_remain »

canjobear wrote: post #125
godelski wrote: post #77

> Russian companies were charged in the U.S. with operating a covert social media campaign aimed at fomenting discord and dividing American public opinion This is key here and I think we should all take note because I see comments here that feed into their tactics. Their goal isn't to have a specific election winner, but to divide us as a nation (not just US but all Westerners and even countries like Japan) and creat…

There's no evidence that their interventions have been effective.

I've been looking at the "Russian meddling" not as an attack on the plebs, to get the masses to substantially change their votes, but as a psyop against the rulers, enraging them by being seen meddling with their subjects. It's been highly effective though I have no way of knowing if things worked out this way by intent or chance

Re: ‘Putin’s chef’ admits to interfering in U.S. elections

#154

Post by SXX »

godelski wrote: post #77

> Russian companies were charged in the U.S. with operating a covert social media campaign aimed at fomenting discord and dividing American public opinion This is key here and I think we should all take note because I see comments here that feed into their tactics. Their goal isn't to have a specific election winner, but to divide us as a nation (not just US but all Westerners and even countries like Japan) and creat…

So much of this. A lot of us underestimate how powerful modern propoganda is and how easy it is to manipulate people. A lot of research been done on human behavior and phychology in recent decades and opressive regimes makes good use of it. It takes time, but unfortunately it's still possible to turn a lot of normal people into zombies on Nazi Germany level.

With internet and social networks spreading all kind of manipulative information became so much easier. If someone thinks that living in democracy alone makes you immune to propoganda that just not the case.

So yeah "Divide and Rule" still work in modern age and it's crucial to keep political discussion alive even if society is really polarized. Otherwise one day we'll all wake up in another version of China, Russia or something even worse.

Disclaimer: I am Russia citizen who been in opposition for decade, immigrated immediately once war began and I financially supporting Ukraine armed forces. So I well aware what I am talking about.

Re: ‘Putin’s chef’ admits to interfering in U.S. elections

#155

Post by kube-system »

AzzieElbab wrote: post #103
godelski wrote: post #77

> Russian companies were charged in the U.S. with operating a covert social media campaign aimed at fomenting discord and dividing American public opinion This is key here and I think we should all take note because I see comments here that feed into their tactics. Their goal isn't to have a specific election winner, but to divide us as a nation (not just US but all Westerners and even countries like Japan) and creat…

"Their goal isn't to have a specific election winner, but to divide us as a nation" - what is the point? our media is so much better at it.

These are not independent issues. Domestic media can and has reported on stories/narratives seeded by Russian misinformation campaigns.

Re: ‘Putin’s chef’ admits to interfering in U.S. elections

#156

Post by factsarelolz »

molotovh wrote: post #152
factsarelolz wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Really? If someone were to believe what you're saying is true then Putin would have invaded Ukraine under a Republican President, Trump. Russia only seems to fuck with Ukraine when a Democrat is President. Why would Putin invade Ukraine or fuck with Ukraine when the party in power hates Russia and will spend untold billions to stop Russia. Your argument makes absolutely no sense.

The party that spent 20 years complaining about the billions we spent on military support to prop up corrupt but US-friendly regimes now claims that not spending billions to prop up a corrupt but US-friendly regime is evidence of collaboration with the enemy.

No post body was provided.

Re: ‘Putin’s chef’ admits to interfering in U.S. elections

#157

Post by factsarelolz »

ethanbond wrote: post #120
factsarelolz wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Really? If someone were to believe what you're saying is true then Putin would have invaded Ukraine under a Republican President, Trump. Russia only seems to fuck with Ukraine when a Democrat is President. Why would Putin invade Ukraine or fuck with Ukraine when the party in power hates Russia and will spend untold billions to stop Russia. Your argument makes absolutely no sense.

> Why would Putin invade Ukraine or fuck with Ukraine when the party in power hates Russia and will spend untold billions to stop Russia. Wait so... why would he? Considering this is exactly what he did? Could it be that there are other components to a decision to invade than merely who is in power halfway around the world? There's nothing incompatible with this and the idea they he'd prefer Trump, or any NATO-withdr…

We'll IF Trump is so "friendly" to Russia and he is Russia's pocket why wouldn't Putin invade when Trump (Putins ally according to the left) is controlling the US military.

Why would Putin invade when a Democrat is president. It makes zero sense.

Re: ‘Putin’s chef’ admits to interfering in U.S. elections

#158

Post by godelski »

Loughla wrote: post #130
LatteLazy wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that smart people, paying attention and putting national interest will now compromise, and people not in that category will just continue to refuse. So the "centre" will move closer to whatever that latter group believes. And will keep doing so until then former group stops compromising. So this, like so so many issues, cannot be solves by appeals to individuals to change their own position. It REQUIRE…

>It REQUIRES a national level fix. Honestly, genuinely, what the hell would that even look like? I legitimately cannot picture a solution here.

It is also passing the buck. We're representative countries, which means the individual always plays a role. Requiring a national fix means garnering national support. That of individuals. Which is exactly what I'm trying to do here.

Re: ‘Putin’s chef’ admits to interfering in U.S. elections

#159

Post by onetimeusename »

matthewdgreen wrote: post #18
subsubzero wrote: post #9

Fun fact, many, many other foreign governments have "interfered" in our elections also. In addition the US has interfered in their elections as well. Its been happening for a very long time.

The point of these warnings is not to say "oh gosh it happens whatever" or "we need to launch the ICBMs directly at Moscow right now." The point is to gird the public so that they know the manipulation is happening and can try to compensate for it. There is a lot of denial about this interference happening out there (please do not make me link to it, it's five seconds on Google) and people who are in denial about thi…

"If only all those other corrupt and stupid people would stop denying foreign election interference that benefits them".

Re: ‘Putin’s chef’ admits to interfering in U.S. elections

#160

Post by ethanbond »

leothecool wrote: post #98
ethanbond wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, their goal is indeed to have a specific election winner and to foment division. The IC has been quite clear that Russia had a strong preference for a Trump victory at least in 2016. [Removed a section on GOP preference for defunding Ukraine since this is not a party position, just a growing position within the party] Everything else you've said is true though - no reason to stick our heads in the sand about their…

> GOP's stated preferences for defunding Ukraine's defense The voting record shows their preference is to continue funding it. I don't know why your information sources are saying the opposite. Maybe they do it to polarize us.

There you go, I've removed it, despite Kevin McCarthy, Matt Gaetz, and Marjorie Taylor Greene all expressing in the last few months that if the GOP were to win the House, that funding would either slow or be halted completely.

The point remains that indeed Putin did prefer a Trump victory, as he himself publicly stated [0], which of course is 50% bullshit propaganda itself. However this was also confirmed by the US's Intelligence Community in 2017 [1].

---

[0]: https://www.politico.com/story/2018/07/16/putin-trump-win-el...

[1]: https://www.dni.gov/files/documents/ICA_2017_01.pdf

> We assess Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered an influence campaign in 2016 aimed at the US presidential election. Russia’s goals were to undermine public faith in the US democratic process, denigrate Secretary Clinton, and harm her electability and potential presidency. *We further assess Putin and the Russian Government developed a clear preference for President-elect Trump.*

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