Well, Russia is returning the favor: https://fair.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/TimeYanks.jpg
In 1996 the US interfered in Russia's elections to help Yeltsin, the man who soon afterward played a major role in putting Putin in power.
‘Putin’s chef’ admits to interfering in U.S. elections
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Re: ‘Putin’s chef’ admits to interfering in U.S. elections
#72Frankly, I'm shocked. The US would never do such a thing and to discover that others may want to influence american politics for their benefit is astonishing.
It’s notable because he was indicted by Muller for election interference, so it’s confirming the accusation that Russia attempted to influence the 2016 election. It’s also newsworthy because many people didn’t (or still don’t) believe any election interference happened, and that it’s the first time (that I’m aware of) where a foreign nation was accused of so directly and materially attempting to influence a US election.
But you’re right, I’m sure lots of countries do this all the time, including the US.
Re: ‘Putin’s chef’ admits to interfering in U.S. elections
#73The timing of this information suggests that while it may be true, its very disclosure may also be meddling in foreign elections -- i.e. casting doubt on their legitimacy helps many within the US who are actively trying to propagate that narrative. EDIT: A word
I doubt russia has any interest in swaying results in democrats favour. If anything republicans have already said they would reduce sent to ukraine. To win, putin needs a few weeks or months of ukraine undersupply.
Re: ‘Putin’s chef’ admits to interfering in U.S. elections
#74Earlier quoted context omitted.
After the cold war ended (last three decades), I'm not sure of any case where America has been coup'ing countries in South America. Do you know some cases?
Dang, I didn't realize confirmed election interference stopped mattering if we were at war with another superpower.
The particular election interference in question was "couping" and the question was where the US had done it recently.
You can be outraged at what happened to Salvador Allende and Patrice Lumumba and all that. I think you should be! And at the same time you can realize that was some time ago and if you don't believe in eternal collective punishment (everyone in Mongolia must suffer for what Genghis Khan did!), then it is relevant that the US is behaving better now and Russia isn't.
And regardless of all this, whataboutism is a counsel of despair: no good can ever be done by anyone because everyone's nation has done bad at some point. Everyone should silently take the abuse. If you truly believe there is such a thing as bad behavior, you don't silence criticism of one act by pointing to another act. You criticize both acts. And your criticism is proportional to the relevance of the act. It sucks that the Angles, Saxons, and Jutes drove out the Britons, but that isn't the top problem to solve anymore.
Re: ‘Putin’s chef’ admits to interfering in U.S. elections
#75It's funny how the media were all over russian meddling into the 2016 elections but not a whisper of russian meddling in the 2020 elections. Either a) russia behaved in 2020 (which is not what this article suggest), or b) these interferences are background noise that don't have much of an impact (2020 elections treatment but then what about 2016?) or c) these interferences have a material impact (2016 elections treat…
these days the only two media I "trust" is apnews and reuters, all the rest are biased one way or another, I simply ignore all of them. I read axios once a while because it's short, and, it seems more objective than all the rest(except for APNews and Reuters that is), so it's the 3rd site I visit.
I used to do the same, trust news agencies, which until recently were neutral and had much higher standards. But those are going fast. I think the most shocking example for me is when Reuters embargo-ed a story about Beto O'Rourke's hacking past, until after the 2018 election to not risk helping Cruz. And I have seen countless news agency articles that were clearly politically biased since.
Re: ‘Putin’s chef’ admits to interfering in U.S. elections
#76Earlier quoted context omitted.
> after Putin retires He ain't retiring. The only way he is leaving the Kremlin is in a casket.
I'm not sure why everyone assumes this. It seems like he'd have much more ability to shape the future of Russia and protect those close to him if he chooses a successor and oversees the succession. He could also ensure better conditions for himself (i.e. not being executed) in case he ends up being unable to continue ruling due to sickness/old age.
Do we have any examples of this actually happening in the Soviet times until now? He's going to be worried about the groomed successor doing him in earlier than natural death. That paranoia is what keeps them from doing what you suggest.
Re: ‘Putin’s chef’ admits to interfering in U.S. elections
#77> Russian companies were charged in the U.S. with operating a covert social media campaign aimed at fomenting discord and dividing American public opinion
This is key here and I think we should all take note because I see comments here that feed into their tactics. Their goal isn't to have a specific election winner, but to divide us as a nation (not just US but all Westerners and even countries like Japan) and create political shutdowns. The point is to further political extremism, on both sides, and to create in fighting so that no united formation can stand against them.
So the question is how to fight against this. There are things that the government can and should do, but there are things we the public NEED to do as well. We have to be aware that we're often in these battlegrounds. This thread is one itself. So when commenting we need to ensure that we're discussing in good faith. That we're avoiding mic drops and easy points. We need nuance and to discuss the complexities of the issues we face in a complex world. Shift away from the emotional reactions because that is what they exploit. They have super computers and trolls aimed at your brain to exploit this animalistic behavior and we all are ill prepared and highly vulnerable to it (yes me, yes you, and I mean all of you). So we have to slow down and think more. It's not easy and causes an internal battle, but I think my doing this we become stronger and this helps us fight any adversary who would like to make useful idiots out of all of us.
Re: ‘Putin’s chef’ admits to interfering in U.S. elections
#78People need to realize that if your goal is to destabilize the United States, insinuating you are interfering with elections while not actually doing anything, is sufficient to cause national upset
If it is possible to cause people to have doubt then the election system and rules need to be fixed. From what I can gather almost all US elected laws (except the partisan and some racist voter id laws) are from the 1800s.
From what I can tell I would state that Brasil has a better election system than the US. Millions voted and everything was counted in just a few hours. There seems to be a whole system to make absolutely sure the results can be trusted even when looser claim the other one cheated or votes are contested.
In the US it appears each state does their own thing. I remember "hanging chads" back in 2000, what a disaster.
Re: ‘Putin’s chef’ admits to interfering in U.S. elections
#79Obviously Russian interferes in US elections. So do many other countries.
And the US interferes in other countries elections. It's always been this way.
It's just an issue now, because interference in the 2016 election was spun by domestic political groups to delegitimize an elected president and subvert the democratic process by attempting to remove the president.
Re: ‘Putin’s chef’ admits to interfering in U.S. elections
#80Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah, everyone's so mortified when the US has been legitimately couping South American nations for a few decades. Like election interference is just an aspect of the global political chess game. America isn't immune from it just because we're "egalitarian" (which it really isn't, we have terrible health outcomes and literacy that have been spackled over by large financial success, we're essentially seeing our decline…
After the cold war ended (last three decades), I'm not sure of any case where America has been coup'ing countries in South America. Do you know some cases?
Brazilian here. The Biden administration and the CIA openly pressured our president to accept the election results before they happened. I gotta at least wonder if they knew he was going to lose.
Now there's nation-wide protests, calls for military intervention, election denialism with some rather convincing evidence, blatant censorship of anyone who's so much as asking if this is going to be investigated.