My mother and grandmother have devoted their lives to outreach to the low-income community. From what they have told me, "poverty" is not at the heart of this issue. Most of these parents have self-destructive habits which will persist regardless of the degree of social engineering thrown at the problem. The only thing that will save children like the one in the article is one-on-one support from caring individuals around him.
An Ode to a 'Poor Black Kid' I Never Knew: How Forbes Gets Poverty Wrong
21–30 of 52 posts
Re: An Ode to a 'Poor Black Kid' I Never Knew: How Forbes Gets Poverty Wrong
#22[deleted]
Re: An Ode to a 'Poor Black Kid' I Never Knew: How Forbes Gets Poverty Wrong
#23Although I agree that the original post was naive, I do not think that the misleading vividness and hasty generalization employed by Jefferson addresses the issue to which the OP was referring. There is massive hardship across all low income families but the use an outlier scenario does not negate the valid argument that having goals and knowing that there is a prize to win at the end of the race, is a strong motivat…
> misleading vividness what? > hasty generalization there are no generalizations here. the article says that the author of the forbes article (as well as you), as a person or privilege, does not understand poverty and thus has no idea how to solve the problem. if anyone is making "hasty generalizations", its the author of the forbes article, who thinks that poor kids simply aren't trying hard enough. > the use an out…
...the article says that the author of the forbes article (as well as you), as a person or privilege, does not understand poverty...
If the article is saying this, we can safely reject it as being a pointless ad-hominem attack.
Re: An Ode to a 'Poor Black Kid' I Never Knew: How Forbes Gets Poverty Wrong
#24Having started at the (US) 99th percentile and having luckily risen to the 2nd percentile, I'll say that the most difficult part was learning 'the language' of the middle class. By language, I mean all the nuanced understandings, cultural concepts, non-verbal stuff that is impossible to gain without being in it. And, as an adult I'm still learning.
One example that I've recently become frighteningly aware of is that I have a vastly different understanding of what 'property' means than those who came from middle class US cultures. It's taken many years for me to understand this because in fact I know and understand the English definition of property as well as my counterparts. But, there are subtle differences in meaning that fundamentally filter my perspective. For instance, I never understood why my college friends became upset when I borrowed things and never returned them, nor why they thought it bizzare that I'd tell them, of my stuff, to just keep it.
There are countless other examples. The article particularly makes me think of my adult friends and their relationships, in and out, rarely 'settling down' from an outsider view. But, just because they get divorced a lot and re-married, or cheat a lot, etc. It doesn't mean that their social conventions are any less valid than those of the middle class America. There are strong social consistencies and social language, unfortunately reinforcing.
My models are very different still, the semantics don't align right with my current environment, and today I have difficulty teaching my son the middle class way.
Re: An Ode to a 'Poor Black Kid' I Never Knew: How Forbes Gets Poverty Wrong
#25Having started at the (US) 99th percentile and having luckily risen to the 2nd percentile, I'll say that the most difficult part was learning 'the language' of the middle class. By language, I mean all the nuanced understandings, cultural concepts, non-verbal stuff that is impossible to gain without being in it. And, as an adult I'm still learning. One example that I've recently become frighteningly aware of is that…
I'd be curious to know if you've looked at the Harlem Children's Zone project, and what your take on it would be.
Re: An Ode to a 'Poor Black Kid' I Never Knew: How Forbes Gets Poverty Wrong
#26"How best to prioritize learning to read rigorously over scheming to get home and be the man of the house in the stead of the father who left? How best to find joy in school with so much hate and embitterment poisoning the rest of your life?" How can we fix this? The problem is that no matter how much our teachers may push students to do better and work harder in school, their home life may work against it. It's one…
You are bringing up the argument for Welfare, Universal Healthcare, etc., that there is nothing that the schools can do. The problems that these kids are facing stems from the fact that they live in poverty. This leads to issues such as the one mentioned by the author. The only way to solve the problem would be to try to figure out a decent Social Benefits system for the poor, to where poor parents do not feel the ne…
> try to figure out a decent Social Benefits system for the poor, to where poor parents do not feel the need to resort to prostitution, drugs, drinking, etc.
Why do you think that the lack of a "decent Social Benefits system" is the reason why they do prostitution, drugs, drinking?
To put it another way, you seem to be assuming that someone drinks because they're poor. Could it be (for some/many) that they're poor because they drink?
Re: An Ode to a 'Poor Black Kid' I Never Knew: How Forbes Gets Poverty Wrong
#27This article alludes to the "bee sting" theory of poverty (see http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2008/03/30/... ). That brings up an interesting question: in historical terms, the subject of this story is quite well-off; he's not always physically at risk, he has ready access to probably non-toxic food, he has shelter, etc. Over a long enough timeline, his life is pretty good. Even his home situation--…
On the one hand you're discussing improvements in living conditions of the human race over 40,000 years and on the other you're discussing a minority that has been systematically oppressed up until a few decades ago. Two completely separate discussions.
Re: An Ode to a 'Poor Black Kid' I Never Knew: How Forbes Gets Poverty Wrong
#28Learning requires only access to education and a stable living environment... and then of course actually doing it.
Internet has mostly taken care of access to education. That leaves only living conditions and motivation as precursors to success.
Re: An Ode to a 'Poor Black Kid' I Never Knew: How Forbes Gets Poverty Wrong
#29This article alludes to the "bee sting" theory of poverty (see http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2008/03/30/... ). That brings up an interesting question: in historical terms, the subject of this story is quite well-off; he's not always physically at risk, he has ready access to probably non-toxic food, he has shelter, etc. Over a long enough timeline, his life is pretty good. Even his home situation--…
Hunter gatherers had much better lives than people give them credit for: http://www.mnforsustain.org/food_ag_worst_mistake_diamond_j....
Your paragraph is pure conjecture.
Re: An Ode to a 'Poor Black Kid' I Never Knew: How Forbes Gets Poverty Wrong
#30Learning requires only access to education and a stable living environment... and then of course actually doing it. Internet has mostly taken care of access to education. That leaves only living conditions and motivation as precursors to success.
Motivation for grade hunting is a tricky thing. I don't understand where people are supposed to take that.
Boredom counter clicks like hell when near any education system featuring grades.