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Bloated college administration is making education unaffordable

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Re: Bloated college administration is making education unaffordable

#251

Post by md_ »

sam345 wrote: post #75
md_ wrote: post #38

There are compelling alternative explanations for the rising cost of education ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baumol%27s_cost_disease#Educ... ). If the underlying cause were primarily administrative overhead, that should be readily apparent in the (public) budget of any public university. I’m not going to go do Silvergate’s research for him, but I’m surprised he doesn’t cite such a readily available piece of compe…

actually the Wikipedia article itself doesn't support your statement. Even if you take for granted there are some other explanations that contribute to the cost rise, administrative overhead is clearly a big factor and that's the issue that can be addressed and he's tackling, not e.g., the relative difference in productivity of educators and everyone else which is a questionable facto.

So what percentage of budget from, say, the UC system went to administration forty years ago vs today? My point was that this should be public data, yes, surprisingly, is not mentioned.

Per https://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d21/tables/dt21_334.30.a..., after two minutes of googling, if I am reading correctly, the percentage spent by four year institutions on “academic support”, which includes admissions, has remained at about 8% from 2000 to 2020. That seems like a basic statistic Silvergate should have on hand, and one that invalidates his hypothesis, right?

Re: Bloated college administration is making education unaffordable

#252

Post by brnaftr361 »

light_hue_1 wrote: post #243
brnaftr361 wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a pretty strong feeling you're being sarcastic. https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaeltnietzel/2022/01/10/fede...

Did you even read your own story? What does this have to do with them being a cartel or not? The story doesn't even claim they collude on pricing! It just says that admissions is not needs blind, the way that these universities claim it is.

From CNN:

"Back in the 1990s, the Justice Department charged several elite colleges with price-fixing, including many current members of the 568 Presidents Group. Those colleges regularly communicated and gave "essentially the same financial aid award" to any student who was admitted to multiple schools, according to congressional research. The suit ended with a settlement, and a 1994 law allowed colleges to keep working together on financial aid packages."

"In writing the law, Congress specified that its goal was to spread the benefits of financial aid as broadly as possible."

And if they're discriminating against lower-income families, that aid won't go to those who ostensibly need it most. Being that the filthy poors won't receive that aid, they will pay more.

The dismissal was refused in August, the case is proceeding, I expect there is something veracious about it, huh?

Re: Bloated college administration is making education unaffordable

#253

Post by clintonb »

bgro wrote: post #227

I think everyone is in agreement that college admins are the cause of the problem. Does anyone know why colleges keep adding to the admin staff? Presumably, they're adding to the profits. I'm curious how this constant bloat growth is increasing profits though. When we get down to the actual minute specifics... What is happening?

> I think everyone is in agreement that college admins are the cause of the problem.

No, we do not agree that this is a problem, or the cause of a problem.

Re: Bloated college administration is making education unaffordable

#254

Post by [deleted] »

testfoobar wrote: post #110

In the US, both college education and healthcare have become enormous taxpayer wealth extraction schemes. Everyone has a "right" to education and healthcare, therefore we should subsidize it with taxpayer money. That is as far as the politics go. We have stupidly funded the demand side of the equation to where both education and healthcare are incredibly bloated behemoths capable of absorbing all the money thrown at…

[deleted]

Re: Bloated college administration is making education unaffordable

#255

Post by heisenbit »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #185
testfoobar wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is funny and true. The competition and prices all originate from elite institutions. I wonder if it legal to completely clone a curriculum? Like could you clone an MIT EECS education? Down to the coursework? Or alternatively - force elite schools to license and manage franchisees? I'd vote for you.

> I wonder if it legal to completely clone a curriculum? Like could you clone an MIT EECS education? MIT will do that for you themselves. https://ocw.mit.edu/ Schools don't compete on curriculum. Nobody pays for it. Nobody cares about it. And in one particular case, I think the "conventional wisdom" has it right - the lectures don't really matter. You can record a lecture and then play it for any number of people, ve…

There is value in learning to get unstuck by yourself. Possibly more than in progressing along a paved road.

Re: Bloated college administration is making education unaffordable

#256

Post by clintonb »

This is the equivalent of asking, “Why does need so many people? It’s just a website!” You cannot blindly cut 90% of staff. Administrative salaries aren’t necessarily the driver of increased tuition costs. They may be one of many factors.

My wife wrote five articles on the myths behind rising education costs, including administrative bloat: https://michellelessly.com/2016/08/08/5-myths-behind-the-ris....

Re: Bloated college administration is making education unaffordable

#257

Post by adql »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #183
dudeinjapan wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In education, "supply" itself is not the issue; there are more than enough spots at state, etc. universities. Its supply of prestigious universities, which is controlled by a cartel. Similar to diamonds, which are neither precious nor rare, yet prices are outrageous because they are controlled by a cartel. If/when I become President of the United States, I will hold back all education dollars on cartel-controlled edu…

> Similar to diamonds, which are neither precious nor rare Well, there are many functions (mostly to do with abrading things) where diamonds are useful for the purpose and a substitute is much, much less so. If you're distinguishing "precious" from "rare", this would seem to be proof that they are precious.

He's talking about jewellery grade, not ones used on tools.

Also there is heavy rhethoric from diamond industry that "natural" are better

Re: Bloated college administration is making education unaffordable

#258

Post by csa »

clintonb wrote: post #256

This is the equivalent of asking, “Why does need so many people? It’s just a website!” You cannot blindly cut 90% of staff. Administrative salaries aren’t necessarily the driver of increased tuition costs. They may be one of many factors. My wife wrote five articles on the myths behind rising education costs, including administrative bloat: https://michellelessly.com/2016/08/08/5-myths-behind-the-ris... .

> My wife wrote five articles on the myths behind rising education costs, including administrative bloat

She casually mentions Title IX and “high touch services”, and then calls those expenses a “necessary cost of doing business”.

I think most of the folks who end up paying the bills would rather them not be.

Re: Bloated college administration is making education unaffordable

#259

Post by heisenbit »

capitalsigma wrote: post #204
curious_cat_163 wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is very insightful. After having gone through it all, do you think if it matters how many doors open for a person based on the college they went? I suppose if someone went to a highly ranked school, it might matter. But being able to get into a highly ranked school is probably because of what the person had (money, life experiences) or what they did (crushed some standardized test). So, in the end, does it actua…

Yes, it matters. The quality of education is better. Lower ranked schools don't dole out the same kind of punishingly hard material that higher ranked schools do. The content of the degree is meaningfully different (based on my experience doing undergrad in a well ranked school and going back to mess around in part time classes while working.)

Consider the percentage of alumni kid and kids of ‚friends‘ admitted to ivy league schools who very likely would fail admission in a purely merit based system. Then factor in the very high graduation rates of ivy schools. And now consider how hard they must be to get through. Still think harder than others?

Re: Bloated college administration is making education unaffordable

#260

Post by peanuty1 »

bgro wrote: post #227

I think everyone is in agreement that college admins are the cause of the problem. Does anyone know why colleges keep adding to the admin staff? Presumably, they're adding to the profits. I'm curious how this constant bloat growth is increasing profits though. When we get down to the actual minute specifics... What is happening?

Empire building?
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