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Bloated college administration is making education unaffordable

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Re: Bloated college administration is making education unaffordable

#121

Post by supertrope »

greenthrow wrote: post #91

PRO TIP: Don't pontificate about things you are not an expert on. You usually are missing a lot of context and detail and if you are right it will only be by accident. College is too expensive, but it's not because people who work at universities are overpaid.

Isn't the whole point of Web 2.0 that random people who aren't journalists or experts can post comments? The website operator then gets the users to provide their own content without the expense of hiring journalists, actors, writers. (That and rounded corners).

Re: Bloated college administration is making education unaffordable

#122

Post by paulpauper »

testfoobar wrote: post #110

In the US, both college education and healthcare have become enormous taxpayer wealth extraction schemes. Everyone has a "right" to education and healthcare, therefore we should subsidize it with taxpayer money. That is as far as the politics go. We have stupidly funded the demand side of the equation to where both education and healthcare are incredibly bloated behemoths capable of absorbing all the money thrown at…

5. And we wonder why tuition keeps increasing? 1) Demand increases with population increase. 2) Demand increase with more people seeking 4 yr degrees. 3) Demand increases with the US subsidizing the ever living shit out of college tuition. 4) Supply stays relatively constant.

Demand is increasing due to the college wage premium, which keeps widening with no end in sight even despite Covid and online learning.

The college wage premium is the number one culprit for all these problems . For whatever reason, employers derive enough benefit from college grads to pay them waaaayyy more than high school grads

https://greyenlightenment.com/2022/09/22/blame-college-wage-...

The vast majority of people attend college to earn more money and be employable, as a sort of ticket the middle class. If college degrees only paid slightly more than high school instead of 2x more, demand would probably fall a lot, so would borrowing and tuition. Same for unemployment: high school grads have to 2x the unemployment rate. Maybe the onus is on employers: start finding ways to find hire more high school grads for better paying work...huge labor pool of high school grads..they cannot all be bad.

Re: Bloated college administration is making education unaffordable

#123

Post by spijdar »

missedthecue wrote: post #115
testfoobar wrote: post #110

In the US, both college education and healthcare have become enormous taxpayer wealth extraction schemes. Everyone has a "right" to education and healthcare, therefore we should subsidize it with taxpayer money. That is as far as the politics go. We have stupidly funded the demand side of the equation to where both education and healthcare are incredibly bloated behemoths capable of absorbing all the money thrown at…

Schools compete not on price but on other factors. That's why they want to build massively expensive campuses and elaborate facilities, because that is what students base their decisions on. If schools competed on price, everyone would be going to state colleges c̶o̶m̶m̶u̶n̶i̶t̶y̶ ̶c̶o̶l̶l̶e̶g̶e̶. I'm not sure how you compel schools to compete on price, because the consumers don't care about price. They'd rather get…

Not to nitpick a tangent, but community colleges, at least where I live, are only 2 year institutions, and don't provide full BS/BA degrees, just Associate degrees, which don't really open the same doors as the Bachelor degrees.

I really wish we had 4 year institutions managed like our community colleges, though. I remember my 2 years there much more fondly than I do my time spent at a "real" university.

Re: Bloated college administration is making education unaffordable

#124

Post by missedthecue »

spijdar wrote: post #123
missedthecue wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Schools compete not on price but on other factors. That's why they want to build massively expensive campuses and elaborate facilities, because that is what students base their decisions on. If schools competed on price, everyone would be going to state colleges c̶o̶m̶m̶u̶n̶i̶t̶y̶ ̶c̶o̶l̶l̶e̶g̶e̶. I'm not sure how you compel schools to compete on price, because the consumers don't care about price. They'd rather get…

Not to nitpick a tangent, but community colleges, at least where I live, are only 2 year institutions, and don't provide full BS/BA degrees, just Associate degrees, which don't really open the same doors as the Bachelor degrees. I really wish we had 4 year institutions managed like our community colleges, though. I remember my 2 years there much more fondly than I do my time spent at a "real" university.

Right, perhaps it would have been better to say state school.

Re: Bloated college administration is making education unaffordable

#125

Post by newsclues »

greenthrow wrote: post #91

PRO TIP: Don't pontificate about things you are not an expert on. You usually are missing a lot of context and detail and if you are right it will only be by accident. College is too expensive, but it's not because people who work at universities are overpaid.

If it isn't overpaid bloated admin, what is the cause?

I worked in EDU.

Re: Bloated college administration is making education unaffordable

#126

Post by brnaftr361 »

greenthrow wrote: post #91

PRO TIP: Don't pontificate about things you are not an expert on. You usually are missing a lot of context and detail and if you are right it will only be by accident. College is too expensive, but it's not because people who work at universities are overpaid.

Let's see those credentials.

Re: Bloated college administration is making education unaffordable

#127

Post by supertrope »

newsclues wrote: post #125
greenthrow wrote: post #91

PRO TIP: Don't pontificate about things you are not an expert on. You usually are missing a lot of context and detail and if you are right it will only be by accident. College is too expensive, but it's not because people who work at universities are overpaid.

If it isn't overpaid bloated admin, what is the cause? I worked in EDU.

Businesses that use a bachelor's degree requirement as blunt hiring filter. Loose credit that can't be discharged in bankruptcy. Colleges are in a rankings arms race instead of prioritizing affordability.

Re: Bloated college administration is making education unaffordable

#128

Post by paulpauper »

spijdar wrote: post #123
missedthecue wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Schools compete not on price but on other factors. That's why they want to build massively expensive campuses and elaborate facilities, because that is what students base their decisions on. If schools competed on price, everyone would be going to state colleges c̶o̶m̶m̶u̶n̶i̶t̶y̶ ̶c̶o̶l̶l̶e̶g̶e̶. I'm not sure how you compel schools to compete on price, because the consumers don't care about price. They'd rather get…

Not to nitpick a tangent, but community colleges, at least where I live, are only 2 year institutions, and don't provide full BS/BA degrees, just Associate degrees, which don't really open the same doors as the Bachelor degrees. I really wish we had 4 year institutions managed like our community colleges, though. I remember my 2 years there much more fondly than I do my time spent at a "real" university.

It may be a reality soon

https://hechingerreport.org/from-associate-to-b-a-more-peopl...

New research from the think tank New America shows that 24 states have approved at least some community colleges’ plans to launch bachelor’s degree programs; at least seven have been approved in the past five years.

Re: Bloated college administration is making education unaffordable

#129

Post by brnaftr361 »

vehemenz wrote: post #109
Overtonwindow wrote: post #4

Imo it is the bloated general education requirements, squeezing as much money from students as possible. It should only take 2 years to earn a bachelor’s. I believe if these classes were optional, they would not survive in the curriculum. University should not be in the business of propping up classes that no one wants, or professors who don’t have classes to teach.

You don't know what you don't know. A big part of education is studying what you don't necessarily want because it helps inform your intellectual interests.

Have you ever been on YouTube?

Re: Bloated college administration is making education unaffordable

#130

Post by dudeinjapan »

testfoobar wrote: post #110

In the US, both college education and healthcare have become enormous taxpayer wealth extraction schemes. Everyone has a "right" to education and healthcare, therefore we should subsidize it with taxpayer money. That is as far as the politics go. We have stupidly funded the demand side of the equation to where both education and healthcare are incredibly bloated behemoths capable of absorbing all the money thrown at…

In education, "supply" itself is not the issue; there are more than enough spots at state, etc. universities. Its supply of prestigious universities, which is controlled by a cartel. Similar to diamonds, which are neither precious nor rare, yet prices are outrageous because they are controlled by a cartel.

If/when I become President of the United States, I will hold back all education dollars on cartel-controlled education institutions, and heavily tax their endownments.

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