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Bloated college administration is making education unaffordable

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Re: Bloated college administration is making education unaffordable

#41
post #40
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I don't think tutors do all that much if everyone is motivated. What I meant was that conversations in person are often more productive, especially when you're trying to get motivated.

In a game world motivation can be generated by access to the next room, level, whatever. Or, if you finish your fractions drill problems, you can play XYZ for an hour.

I'm talking about being motivated enough to be willing to ask questions that may make you look stupid etc.

I don't think the system you're proposing would work for open-ended subjects.

Re: Bloated college administration is making education unaffordable

#42
post #14

This is... strange. The issue of a price would seem to me to be an issue of supply and demand. Yet, this article talks about a weirdly tangential topic. This article seems to put forward the idea that the administration of colleges has become bloated and this has led to higher fees. But that's simply not the causal chain. No one in any administration is thinking "better put that tuition up, and accept the loss in can…

The problem is the bid/ask spread. Ultimately everyone would prefer cheaper education with the exception of college administrators. The last 40 years has seen interest rates steadily fall, allowing students to pay the cost of education further in the future. This in turn allowed students to bid more for education that they otherwise would have paid less for. If interest rates and inflation reverse their long term cou…

> everyone would prefer cheaper education with the exception of college administrators.

And the banksters who make the student loans which are difficult to discharge in bankruptcy. The price ramp started after the no bankruptcy provision was made law.

https://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/economy-budget/28362...

Simply repeal this law which was a gift to the banksters in the 1990s.

Re: Bloated college administration is making education unaffordable

#43
Double edged sword. What the author proposes can be found. Go to some small low endowment private or public school for less money. Oh wait, you say, I don’t want to go there! The buildings aren’t as nice, the dorms are cramped and drab, there aren’t as many resources, the food sucks, the Wi-Fi is spotty, heck even the website sucks. Why is this? Because they don’t have the human or financial resources to do so.

You get what you pay for. Student and parent expectations have changed and so have college and universities. If you want what colleges used to be like 50 years ago go to a small private or public school that is just barely staying afloat, it will be more or less similar to the so called halcyon days of low cost, no frills college.

The thing is—people don’t want this as voted for by their choice in school. The biggest drops in enrollment are at community colleges, state schools, and small private schools. If people were price sensitive cheap schools would have people busting down the doors to get in. They don’t. In fact, when a college lowers their tuition, they paradoxically often see a dip in enrollments.

Why? Because human brains are broken. We connate price with prestige and prestige with quality.

Colleges get punished if they lower the price, so what do they do instead? They increase the discount rate. Rarely do families pay the sticker price. Google any college tuition and you will see average price paid. It is typically anywhere from 50-75% of sticker price.

Re: Bloated college administration is making education unaffordable

#44
I think the article misses the root cause here. Drastically increased availability of loan-based financial aid means far more more money in the system, which means the prices go up.

The article nails the cause of more administrators--the schools have more money to spend and need to spend it--but completely misses the reason schools are able to charge so much more these days.

Re: Bloated college administration is making education unaffordable

#45

Double edged sword. What the author proposes can be found. Go to some small low endowment private or public school for less money. Oh wait, you say, I don’t want to go there! The buildings aren’t as nice, the dorms are cramped and drab, there aren’t as many resources, the food sucks, the Wi-Fi is spotty, heck even the website sucks. Why is this? Because they don’t have the human or financial resources to do so. You g…

I don't think Colorado State is a top-tier college - in a pretty quiet place - no big names - but when I visited it from the UK for a conference I could not believe how nice and polished everything was. Beautiful buildings and spaces. I did some coding in a kind of forum with a large open fire and two-storey glass walls looking out over the snow. Very inspirational. I guess it costs though.

Re: Bloated college administration is making education unaffordable

#46
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet education costs were exponentially lower until about 1-2 decades ago where they exploded. Despite demand being ridiculously high even in the past.

Exponentially lower. What does that mean? Three orders of magnitude?

When I went to a California community college in the early 90s tuition was $6/unit capped at $60/semester.

The same school is now $46/unit with no cap.

Though, through the google, it looks like there’s some sort of two years of free tuition program so it’s probably a wash practically speaking.

Re: Bloated college administration is making education unaffordable

#47

Double edged sword. What the author proposes can be found. Go to some small low endowment private or public school for less money. Oh wait, you say, I don’t want to go there! The buildings aren’t as nice, the dorms are cramped and drab, there aren’t as many resources, the food sucks, the Wi-Fi is spotty, heck even the website sucks. Why is this? Because they don’t have the human or financial resources to do so. You g…

Then why is this only mainly a US problem?

Re: Bloated college administration is making education unaffordable

#48
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is the bid/ask spread. Ultimately everyone would prefer cheaper education with the exception of college administrators. The last 40 years has seen interest rates steadily fall, allowing students to pay the cost of education further in the future. This in turn allowed students to bid more for education that they otherwise would have paid less for. If interest rates and inflation reverse their long term cou…

> everyone would prefer cheaper education with the exception of college administrators. And the banksters who make the student loans which are difficult to discharge in bankruptcy. The price ramp started after the no bankruptcy provision was made law. https://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/economy-budget/28362... Simply repeal this law which was a gift to the banksters in the 1990s.

You must not be familiar with the American system.

Re: Bloated college administration is making education unaffordable

#49

Double edged sword. What the author proposes can be found. Go to some small low endowment private or public school for less money. Oh wait, you say, I don’t want to go there! The buildings aren’t as nice, the dorms are cramped and drab, there aren’t as many resources, the food sucks, the Wi-Fi is spotty, heck even the website sucks. Why is this? Because they don’t have the human or financial resources to do so. You g…

I think you have the causality all backwards. Colleges with quality gain prestige, which makes people willing to borrow extra money to go there, which creates windfall profits administrators can use to increase their personal standing by hiring more headcount and do things like paint the dorms and buy fancier food. That doesn't mean people's priorities in college choice are primarily or even significantly determined by dorm quality or cafeteria food, much less administrative headcount that harms the educational experience if it has any effect at all on it.

If you want what colleges used to be like 50 years ago — more power in the faculty senate, greater academic freedom, more focus on doing research and less on grantwriting, greater freedom to research moonshots, very few adjuncts — you aren't going to find it at small private or public schools that are barely staying afloat.

Re: Bloated college administration is making education unaffordable

#50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet education costs were exponentially lower until about 1-2 decades ago where they exploded. Despite demand being ridiculously high even in the past.

Reduced state funding is a significant component of rapidly rising higher ed costs in the US. https://www.cbpp.org/research/state-budget-and-tax/state-hig...

Doesn’t explain why a bostonU accounting degree costs 50k a year. Also doesnt answer why I should pay for someone else’s useless umass Boston econ or psych degree
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