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Launch HN: Shimmer (YC S21) – ADHD coaching for adults

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191–200 of 264 posts

Re: Launch HN: Shimmer (YC S21) – ADHD coaching for adults

#191

Oh look: another service that thinks ADHD is an inability to do scheduling or some other bullshit. ADHD is literally a neurological disorder that effects dopamine in the brain. It reduces wakefulness, concentration, the ability to filter out distractions, and the ability to motivate yourself. A software solution won't fix this. What ADHD people need isn't a normie couch to tell them to 'prioritize' differently or a b…

This is what I would've thought not even a year ago.

Having tried pretty much all the stimulants (oh DNMs how I love you) and currently taking one, I almost can't believe I have to say medication alone is not enough.

Re: Launch HN: Shimmer (YC S21) – ADHD coaching for adults

#192

Oh look: another service that thinks ADHD is an inability to do scheduling or some other bullshit. ADHD is literally a neurological disorder that effects dopamine in the brain. It reduces wakefulness, concentration, the ability to filter out distractions, and the ability to motivate yourself. A software solution won't fix this. What ADHD people need isn't a normie couch to tell them to 'prioritize' differently or a b…

My friend it is you who should consider being ashamed. Suggesting stimulants as the first line of treatment rather than cardiovascular exercise, good sleep, and a healthier relationship with food is at best dismissive of the body of modern research and at worst introduction of a dangerous 'just pop a pill' crutch. Stimulants are not at all the only way out of the ouroboros of adhd symptoms making today hard and tomor…

ADHD meds are suggested as a first line treatment above all of those other things because they are more effective than all those things, like several times as effective, and are well tolerated and inexpensive.

It is that fact which plays into why this treatment is exploitative. You should only ever be trying something like this after exhausting a number of more effective options. This program is marketing itself as for people who AREN'T EVEN DIAGNOSED with ADHD and pretending this is somehow an "evidence-based" approach.

Re: Launch HN: Shimmer (YC S21) – ADHD coaching for adults

#193

Oh look: another service that thinks ADHD is an inability to do scheduling or some other bullshit. ADHD is literally a neurological disorder that effects dopamine in the brain. It reduces wakefulness, concentration, the ability to filter out distractions, and the ability to motivate yourself. A software solution won't fix this. What ADHD people need isn't a normie couch to tell them to 'prioritize' differently or a b…

My wife was diagnosed several years ago at our 3rd marriage counselor. We found a physician that 100% believes in a medication based solution, went through 4-5 different medications to find the right one for her, and she's successful with Vyvanse. Mostly.

Vyvance is time release. She takes it in the morning and it wears off by the time she gets home. The behaviors at home that don't work well are still there but her stress level is way down now that she has a good handle on work. Good for her, better but not good for the kids and I.

I wouldn't say she needs anything like counseling because there isn't a problem with perception or emotional dysfunction. A "coach" on the other hand could help her and us quite a bit, if she had someone to talk to about "life". Maybe they could point out she's gone into work for the last 3 weekends and for this upcoming one she can take Saturday completely for herself to decompress, then do something meaningful and fun with her family on Sunday. That would make her feel a lot better and the the kids and I too.

The problem is the person with ADHD being willing to have some measure of accountability. The life coach needs to do that part expertly. In our case, it really does need to be someone else because I can say the same thing as a life coach and in the exact same way, but because I am "the husband" my wife's guilt ramps up and so does negative self talk and some anger. Even when I try to help kindly and thoughtfully she can become defiant or dismissive. Because I'm "the husband". I have tried stepping and helping her have a relax day followed by a family day but its exhausting as I'm the only adult doing it. Its a bit of a trap too because it starts to change our relationship to the dreaded parent/child dynamic. Although I tend to think of it as care giver and care needer. ADHD aside, she needs to own what she does or does not do because she is an intelligent capable adult. But she has to figure out how to do it without me stepping in all the time.

So while medication ought to be the first step for help, it is also probably the right thing to supplement with some kind of coaching, even if it is infrequent or done with a light touch. Ideally self reflection could eliminate the need for coaching but it's not a task that elevates dopamine levels in the executive function of the brain. Meaning, someone with ADHD is probably not drawn to or motivated to do it on their own. It's more likely involving an unbiased 3rd party is actually helpful.

ADHD is not a bad thing and I really don't want to call it a dysfunction. I'm in the neurodivergent camp. When her hyper focus kicks in whatever she is doing is done to the best degree anything like that can be done. There's another member of the family that has ADHD that is also competitive. When we do something together and there is the mere possibility of being competitive, their hyper focus kicks in and I can't keep up with them. In software development, an engineer with ADHD can out think and out code me by a noticeable distance if their hyper focus kicks in. Their problem isn't performing, it's being in control of when they perform and on what tasks. They make great pinch hitters by the way. Want a production issue fixed quickly? Grab the ADHD dev in a group meeting where they share their screen. Me though, I cave. I fold. Too much pressure and I don't mind admitting it. I'm too much of an empath. I just don't see ADHD as a dysfunction because its obvious that its a rebalancing of strengths and weaknesses. They'll get their electricity shut off by forgetting to pay the bill but they'll also decorate the best looking wedding cake when it's late and the decorator calls in sick.

I want to also mention, we have a friend that hasn't been diagnosed but swears he has ADHD. I can see that might be true but he also is an avid runner. The physical and mental exercise of running probably helps him manage well enough that he doesn't need medication. And I think that suggests that ADHD is not a switch where you have it or you don't, more that it is a spectrum. There are probably people that have a low level of ADHD and have figured out life just works better if they do certain things, like drinking coffee regularly and running.

edit: spelled Vyvanse wrong

Re: Launch HN: Shimmer (YC S21) – ADHD coaching for adults

#194

Im really surprised to see the intense skepticism here. As someone who is just stumbling into this world and studying ADHD as an otherwise successful adult, Chris’ description (and $99 price frankly) resonated with me and made me think I might be in the target market. Even one of his responses to someone thanking someone for feedback is being downvoted. Is there a connotation of ADHD being associated with snake-oil o…

>Is there a connotation of ADHD being associated with snake-oil or scams that I’m not familiar with?

With ADHD? Not really, but compared to other disabled people those with ADHD tend to be extremely pro mainstream medicine because they have basically the most effective pharmacological treatments of ANY mental disorder. Stimulants are several times more effective than treatments like SSRIs. So there is a strong bias towards conservatism because well why rock the boat when you have extremely effective treatment options?

Other disabled people tend to have a much more ambivalent or sceptical view of mainstream medicine since trying to treat most mental disorders is akin to trying to stop smoking. It does happen and it's more likely to happen the more times you try, but it's a plodding frustrating business that makes you desire something better. So they're more keen on more, lets call them "speculative" approaches to health.

For me with this specific case, it's them talking up the "science-based" (lol) nature of their program and them directly marketing it to people not diagnosed with ADHD but who suspect they have it. Show me the science showing this is an effective treatment for people who THINK they have ADHD. Thus essentially encouraging people to defer a diagnosis which results in insanely effective treatments to try a program that is experimental at best and is based off methodologies which are far less successful than pharmacological interventions. It smacks of exploitation. I'm not inherently opposed to the fundamental idea they're presenting, I simply don't trust these people AT ALL and think they're dangerous.

Re: Launch HN: Shimmer (YC S21) – ADHD coaching for adults

#195
post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Suggesting stimulants as the first line of treatment rather than cardiovascular exercise, good sleep, and a healthier relationship with food is at best dismissive of the body of modern research and at worst introduction of a dangerous 'just pop a pill' crutch. Literally none of this is true. The research overwhelmingly shows that stimulant medication is the most effective treatment for ADHD, and second place isn't…

ADHD and stimulants are codefined. That doesn't prove anything, it's a circular definition. The people who got exercise, slept well and kept meaning in their life avoided falling down the hole. They aren't in the study in the first place.

> The people who got exercise, slept well and kept meaning in their life avoided falling down the hole. They aren't in the study in the first place.

Horseshit.

I have a sleep tracker and an exercise tracker that tell me I get enough of both and I’ve plenty of meaning in my life. None of those things helped nearly as much as adderall.

Re: Launch HN: Shimmer (YC S21) – ADHD coaching for adults

#196
post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Suggesting stimulants as the first line of treatment rather than cardiovascular exercise, good sleep, and a healthier relationship with food is at best dismissive of the body of modern research and at worst introduction of a dangerous 'just pop a pill' crutch. Literally none of this is true. The research overwhelmingly shows that stimulant medication is the most effective treatment for ADHD, and second place isn't…

ADHD and stimulants are codefined. That doesn't prove anything, it's a circular definition. The people who got exercise, slept well and kept meaning in their life avoided falling down the hole. They aren't in the study in the first place.

My problem with this comment is that the other argument is well demonstrated with a litany of scientific literature - whereas this argument is at best interpretation unprovable.

Re: Launch HN: Shimmer (YC S21) – ADHD coaching for adults

#197
Am I the only adult that just never got around to getting an official diagnosis for the condition I'd obviously had since a child and thought was dealing with just fine by self medicating with caffeine and nicotine?

I read things like this and it seems so absurd. Is anyone really surprised by the diagnosis?

>Getting diagnosed with ADHD as an adult is complicated—equally heartbreaking and liberating. You literally need to rewrite your whole life narrative in light of this new realization. The process currently is super confusing and expensive (medications, therapy, coaching, tools, apps, etc.)

The only surprise for me was finding out what, what I assume, "normal" is like once I started on real stimulants. Turns out I was wrong. I wasn't dealing with it just fine all along. I'd been living on hard mode and never knew it.

Re: Launch HN: Shimmer (YC S21) – ADHD coaching for adults

#198
post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Suggesting stimulants as the first line of treatment rather than cardiovascular exercise, good sleep, and a healthier relationship with food is at best dismissive of the body of modern research and at worst introduction of a dangerous 'just pop a pill' crutch. Literally none of this is true. The research overwhelmingly shows that stimulant medication is the most effective treatment for ADHD, and second place isn't…

ADHD and stimulants are codefined. That doesn't prove anything, it's a circular definition. The people who got exercise, slept well and kept meaning in their life avoided falling down the hole. They aren't in the study in the first place.

This is somewhat offensive.

Re: Launch HN: Shimmer (YC S21) – ADHD coaching for adults

#199

Oh look: another service that thinks ADHD is an inability to do scheduling or some other bullshit. ADHD is literally a neurological disorder that effects dopamine in the brain. It reduces wakefulness, concentration, the ability to filter out distractions, and the ability to motivate yourself. A software solution won't fix this. What ADHD people need isn't a normie couch to tell them to 'prioritize' differently or a b…

Even IF - even IF this service is effective for people with ADHD - how does this service deal with the problem of people believing they have ADHD when they actually have another problem which presents similarly? Literally read their post, it's for if: >If you have ADHD (or think you do) Wow that's great and not exploitative at all. A service to treat a medical condition that people merely THINK they have. Don't suppo…

Thanks for your comment.

This definitely is not treatment nor therapy/medication, just to clarify. We view ourselves as 1 potential piece of your greater solution to ADHD (or wanting better executive function skills in general). Same as a to-do list is helpful for ADHD, as is a body doubling tool. These services don't treat ADHD, simply may be of help!

Re: Launch HN: Shimmer (YC S21) – ADHD coaching for adults

#200

Am I the only adult that just never got around to getting an official diagnosis for the condition I'd obviously had since a child and thought was dealing with just fine by self medicating with caffeine and nicotine? I read things like this and it seems so absurd. Is anyone really surprised by the diagnosis? >Getting diagnosed with ADHD as an adult is complicated—equally heartbreaking and liberating. You literally nee…

Appreciate you sharing, and resonate a lot...

For me, I wasn't surprised by the diagnosis but taking the pause to finally recognize (and a 3rd party, professional) my ADHD changed things for me.

I resonate with the hard mode. I had the same realization when I got to the right dose/type of medication.

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