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Launch HN: Shimmer (YC S21) – ADHD coaching for adults

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Re: Launch HN: Shimmer (YC S21) – ADHD coaching for adults

#61

Post by PragmaticPulp »

cauthon wrote: post #2

Why do you describe your product as "coaching", and not "therapy"? Is this a marketing decision because of a perceived stigma around the term "therapy"? (The re-branding of CBT/ACT to "coaching" and "training" instead of "therapy" strikes me as odd, I don't understand the emphasis on avoiding the term.) Will your company be accepting medical insurance? $350/mo (~$90/session) is roughly half of what billed-to-insuranc…

> However, with insurance I've usually paid $25-40/session out of pocket.

This is what insured people need to keep in mind.

Always look up the actual cost estimation through your insurer's website first. It's not uncommon for health insurance at tech companies to have therapy options that come out to $20-30/session. Worth checking first!

Also, note that the service offered here is explicitly "coaching" and not "therapy" as you'd receive from licensed therapists through your insurance.

Re: Launch HN: Shimmer (YC S21) – ADHD coaching for adults

#62

Post by renewiltord »

Why is your onboarding questionnaire so complex? Is it a regulatory requirement? The "what are the symptoms?" page in particular is absolutely humongous. I felt visceral aversion at looking at that massive list but managed to push through and click Procrastination and Staying on Task only to be rewarded by an extra page.

Re: Launch HN: Shimmer (YC S21) – ADHD coaching for adults

#63

Post by christalwang »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #58
jasonladuke0311 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same here. I think there is a natural undercurrent of skepticism on HN, a lot of which is well-deserved. The ROI of this could be tremendous for someone in tech. If this helps you get your shit together enough to be promoted a cycle early, for example, or find a new job, it could be a bargain.

> The ROI of this could be tremendous for someone in tech. Sure, but if someone in tech is seeking help it's better to start with ADHD therapy (not "coaching") from licensed medical professionals, utilizing their insurance to offset the costs. The issue a lot of us are trying to raise in this thread is that the program seems designed to take advantage of the lack of understanding about therapy versus coaching and cas…

Appreciate the thought & explanation here. This is definitely an issue and I'd love to explain a bit more about our thought process here (because we definitely don't want to take advantage, instead seek to raise awareness/ educate!)

I definitely agree ADHD therapy can be hugely beneficial but most of our members have cited it as next to impossible to find a therapist (within their insurance / state / etc) who is even ADHD-informed, let alone practices ADHD-specialized therapy. Unfortunately, I've also gone through this process and found the same.

We in no way aim to replace therapy or put ourselves against therapy. Many of our members are also in therapy (for OCD, anxiety, depression, other things) and we are more than supportive of that. For many of them, their therapists are the ones who recommended them to coaching, and how they found us.

And lastly, yes. If you're looking for therapy, we're definitely not the place to go. We try to make that super clear on our website and in all of our communications (we have many drip campaigns, campaigns, Instagram posts, etc. trying to help raise awareness and shed light on the differences between therapy and coaching for ADHD). Additionally, anyone who comes through our flow (get an email) are given the option to speak with me directly before joining and I can answer any question they have / help them even if the answer is not Shimmer.

Re: Launch HN: Shimmer (YC S21) – ADHD coaching for adults

#64

Post by christalwang »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #55
TheTaytay wrote: post #32

Im really surprised to see the intense skepticism here. As someone who is just stumbling into this world and studying ADHD as an otherwise successful adult, Chris’ description (and $99 price frankly) resonated with me and made me think I might be in the target market. Even one of his responses to someone thanking someone for feedback is being downvoted. Is there a connotation of ADHD being associated with snake-oil o…

> As someone who is just stumbling into this world and studying ADHD as an otherwise successful adult, Chris’ description (and $99 price frankly) resonated with me and made me think I might be in the target market. The issue is that this is likely more expensive for someone with health insurance than it would be to go out and engage with a guaranteed licensed medical professional for ADHD therapy. They use some vague…

Thanks for your comments here.

We will definitely look into our language on our website to make sure we're not obscuring anything. We definitely do NOT offer therapy, and you ARE working with an ADHD Coach rather than a licensed therapist. In fact, even if the coach you're working with has a therapist/counselor credential, on our platform that is not the service they are providing.

I'd love to get a better sense of what language you feel is misleading, and we'll work hard to change that to reflect the reality of what we're offering!

Re: Launch HN: Shimmer (YC S21) – ADHD coaching for adults

#65

Post by christalwang »

renewiltord wrote: post #62

Why is your onboarding questionnaire so complex? Is it a regulatory requirement? The "what are the symptoms?" page in particular is absolutely humongous. I felt visceral aversion at looking at that massive list but managed to push through and click Procrastination and Staying on Task only to be rewarded by an extra page.

Feedback taken! It's not a regulatory requirement but helps us understand what challenges folks are coming in with. We've been pouring over this part of the intake with members & the ADHD community and now have received a couple more points of feedback that we take very seriously!

We'll be updating the flow today.

Re: Launch HN: Shimmer (YC S21) – ADHD coaching for adults

#66

Post by Spivak »

s-video wrote: post #42

I'm an adult with ADHD but this doesn't appeal to me because I've already found behavioral techniques that work really well for ~free. I'll try and describe one briefly: I use a free app called Virtual Motivaider[1] to make my phone vibrate every 2 to 6 minutes. I'll print a sheet[2] that has a table with two columns. Every row is the same: the first column has the text "Am I on Task?" and the second column has two c…

You do get that "finding the techniques that work for you" is like the whole value of the coach, right? You're standing at the end, and I'm assuming you've put in a lot of work to get where you are because the kinds of resources that would helped you weren't available.

There is such a gap of "people who have ADHD sharing the things that actually worked for them." One of the best strategies for me "task bracelets" I didn't get from my therapist but a random TikTok.

I don't really know if this service is the one to pull it off but I want something like it to exist.

Re: Launch HN: Shimmer (YC S21) – ADHD coaching for adults

#67

Post by onlyrealcuzzo »

TheTaytay wrote: post #32

Im really surprised to see the intense skepticism here. As someone who is just stumbling into this world and studying ADHD as an otherwise successful adult, Chris’ description (and $99 price frankly) resonated with me and made me think I might be in the target market. Even one of his responses to someone thanking someone for feedback is being downvoted. Is there a connotation of ADHD being associated with snake-oil o…

Probably going to get downvoted - but I'll hypothesize anyway...

I imagine for the younger folks on HN, we grew up with what seemed like >50% of people claiming to have ADHD, OCD, Tourettes - or some other TikTok-fad "cool" disorder - which obviously not that many people actually have these problems.

At least not too long ago when I was young enough to be in that crowd - ADHD was the king of "cool" disorders. Everyone wanted to have ADHD. If you were "normal" - that was "uncool". It was like - what's wrong with you? Why don't you have some debilitating problem like everyone else?

So like claimed gluten intolerance in the adult population - I think there could be some skepticism to the occurrence and severity of some of these disorders - and to anyone making products for such groups to be a snake-oil salesman trying to capitalize.

But, who cares? Is anyone getting hurt? Let people do what makes them happy.

Re: Launch HN: Shimmer (YC S21) – ADHD coaching for adults

#68

Post by falcolas »

okhuman wrote: post #9

"ADHD" needs a rebranding... move away from clinical diagnosis from medical professionals which can be "heartbreaking" or "liberating" to coaches/advisors running community groups which build frameworks for these like minded, like personality individuals (and their associated family/friends) to operate in (like a 'club') and to help educate others (advocacy). People with "ADHD" are already covered by the Big Five Per…

So, please tell me, where does executive disfunction fall in the "Big Five"? How about time blindness? Emotional disregulation? Persistent short term memory issues?

It is a disorder which has a material impact on a person's ability to live in our society. In more severe cases, the afflicted benefit greatly from medication. No amount of rebranding or projection will change this.

Re: Launch HN: Shimmer (YC S21) – ADHD coaching for adults

#69

Post by TheTaytay »

christalwang wrote: post #36
TheTaytay wrote: post #32

Im really surprised to see the intense skepticism here. As someone who is just stumbling into this world and studying ADHD as an otherwise successful adult, Chris’ description (and $99 price frankly) resonated with me and made me think I might be in the target market. Even one of his responses to someone thanking someone for feedback is being downvoted. Is there a connotation of ADHD being associated with snake-oil o…

Hi! Chris(tal) here (also, I'm a woman.. she/her, haha. I get that a lot using my nickname) Unfortunately, yes. There are many businesses that take advantage of not only people with ADHD but people in other vulnerable communities (e.g. other neurological conditions and mental illnesses). I've been in this space for a long time since I started with my Eating Disorder amongst other things in my teenage years. Of course…

Ah, that is clarifying. (And oh! Thanks for the gender correction. I didn’t read your username)

I can imagine that starting a mental health business that hits close to home can feel more vulnerable than starting a business is already, so kudos.

Re: Launch HN: Shimmer (YC S21) – ADHD coaching for adults

#70

Post by kdkdkdkxin »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #67
TheTaytay wrote: post #32

Im really surprised to see the intense skepticism here. As someone who is just stumbling into this world and studying ADHD as an otherwise successful adult, Chris’ description (and $99 price frankly) resonated with me and made me think I might be in the target market. Even one of his responses to someone thanking someone for feedback is being downvoted. Is there a connotation of ADHD being associated with snake-oil o…

Probably going to get downvoted - but I'll hypothesize anyway... I imagine for the younger folks on HN, we grew up with what seemed like >50% of people claiming to have ADHD, OCD, Tourettes - or some other TikTok-fad "cool" disorder - which obviously not that many people actually have these problems. At least not too long ago when I was young enough to be in that crowd - ADHD was the king of "cool" disorders. Everyon…

> At least not too long ago when I was young enough to be in that crowd - ADHD was the king of "cool" disorders. Everyone wanted to have ADHD. If you were "normal" - that was "uncool". It was like - what's wrong with you? Why don't you have some debilitating problem like everyone else?

Speaking as someone who definitely, definitely has rather severe hyperactive type ADHD complete with anxiety comorbidity and tactile defensiveness that presents sufficiently severely to look like mild ARFID and was diagnosed over a decade ago in early adulthood:

How, just -how-, could anyone want this disorder? It's miserable, it's embarrassing to constantly blurt things out and to immediately regret it and yet not be able to change the behavior, it fucked up my educational experience (I wasn't diagnosed until AFTER that happened), every day is a struggle with it, and because of the stigma it has, I can't even communicate to people effectively what it means that I have it!

So who cares? I care! It hurts ME when people self diagnose or claim to have my disorder when they don't. It's a struggle every. Single. Day. And thanks to people apparently deciding it's cool to pretend to have, a lot of people don't even believe my disorder exists

Endlessly frustrating.

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