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Is CBL-Mariner going to become Microsoft Linux?

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Re: Is CBL-Mariner going to become Microsoft Linux?

#181

Post by kasabali »

josephg wrote: post #73
mastax wrote: post #17

Imagine writing Linux From Scratch and someone from Microsoft reads it and uses it to make a Linux distribution that goes on to power dozens of that trillion-dollar company's products. To be clear, I'm not saying that "you should be outraged," necessarily. It's just an interesting thing.

Imagine being ok with trillion dollar companies using opensource code you wrote, for free. Imagine if the people who work at those companies aren't your enemy. But instead are potential customers and potential collaborators, who see value in your work and want it to succeed. Imagine if there was a good implementation of some idea, expressed as code. And we can all share and contribute to that single good implementati…

> This is the gap between GNU GPL (especially GPL3) and BSD/MIT licenses

This is completely false. See https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#NoMilitary

> I'd like to license my code under the GPL, but I'd also like to make it clear that it can't be used for military and/or commercial uses. Can I do this?

> No, because those two goals contradict each other. The GNU GPL is designed specifically to prevent the addition of further restrictions. GPLv3 allows a very limited set of them, in section 7, but any other added restriction can be removed by the user.

> More generally, a license that limits who can use a program, or for what, is not a free software license.

Re: Is CBL-Mariner going to become Microsoft Linux?

#182

Post by pjmlp »

jacooper wrote: post #20
noinsight wrote: post #18

No. Microsoft will buy Canonical for Ubuntu and that sweet, sweet developer mindshare. Ubuntu is the developer distro after all. Ubuntu will become Microsoft Linux.

Is this really realistic ? Why would Microsoft get into the Linux Enterprise market?

Because Azure is the new OS, and for better or worse, UNIX was won the server room wars, with Linux being the most used variant nowadays.

However with containers running directly on top of hypervisors and serverless, it is only a matter of time until the actuall OS of the server room is irrelevant.

Until then, Linux and BSD (which they also support) are business relevant.

Re: Is CBL-Mariner going to become Microsoft Linux?

#183

Post by rcarmo »

I have zero to do with Mariner, but I would just like to point out that nobody seems to have actually read the distro docs. I see it as a way to have end-to-end supply chain management for critical components that are used across multiple MS workloads, and not as something directly targeted at customers, so all the conspiracy theories in this HN thread are incredibly amusing.

Everyone’s free to use it, though. The entire thing is up on GitHub someplace (on mobile, so can’t dig out the repo easily), but some assembly might be required for your use case.

As an anecdote, when I was playing around with it (built a VM, some containers, etc.) I also moved my personal laptop to Fedora because I realized I was out of touch with modern RPM-based distros.

Re: Is CBL-Mariner going to become Microsoft Linux?

#184

Post by bayindirh »

rcarmo wrote: post #183

I have zero to do with Mariner, but I would just like to point out that nobody seems to have actually read the distro docs. I see it as a way to have end-to-end supply chain management for critical components that are used across multiple MS workloads, and not as something directly targeted at customers, so all the conspiracy theories in this HN thread are incredibly amusing. Everyone’s free to use it, though. The en…

> so all the conspiracy theories in this HN thread are incredibly amusing.

Microsoft may be just doing something for their needs, and putting in the open like a good citizen of the FOSS world, but the older people who remembers whatever happened back in the day have all their rights to be paranoid about MS.

"Eh, this is the old Microsoft, today's one is different" is just a sentence. They still don't (and probably never will) inspire confidence when it comes to Linux and FOSS.

We see what they have done with GitHub, for a start.

Re: Is CBL-Mariner going to become Microsoft Linux?

#185

Post by MattPalmer1086 »

kasabali wrote: post #181
josephg wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine being ok with trillion dollar companies using opensource code you wrote, for free. Imagine if the people who work at those companies aren't your enemy. But instead are potential customers and potential collaborators, who see value in your work and want it to succeed. Imagine if there was a good implementation of some idea, expressed as code. And we can all share and contribute to that single good implementati…

> This is the gap between GNU GPL (especially GPL3) and BSD/MIT licenses This is completely false. See https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#NoMilitary > I'd like to license my code under the GPL, but I'd also like to make it clear that it can't be used for military and/or commercial uses. Can I do this? > No, because those two goals contradict each other. The GNU GPL is designed specifically to prevent the addit…

I think the point is only that companies will often not use GPL licensed code in their own products, as that forces them to GPL their own code as well.

So BSD/MIT is less restrictive in that sense. There is no obligation to change the license of any code that uses it.

Re: Is CBL-Mariner going to become Microsoft Linux?

#186

Post by anonymoushn »

janc_ wrote: post #180
anonymoushn wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm talking about upgrading a non-LTS release to an LTS release.

The only supported (=tested) upgrade from non-LTS to LTS is from the last version before the LTS, and you should not change the sources yourself when you do that. When you skip releases, no distro will officially support such upgrades (except for Ubuntu LTS-to-LTS, without skipping an LTS), and things might break. Also, when you really want to skip releases, it is often better (IME) to change the sources manually and…

If you have a machine running ubuntu 19.something today, you cannot upgrade to any other release without messing with your sources first.

Re: Is CBL-Mariner going to become Microsoft Linux?

#187

Post by rcarmo »

bayindirh wrote: post #184
rcarmo wrote: post #183

I have zero to do with Mariner, but I would just like to point out that nobody seems to have actually read the distro docs. I see it as a way to have end-to-end supply chain management for critical components that are used across multiple MS workloads, and not as something directly targeted at customers, so all the conspiracy theories in this HN thread are incredibly amusing. Everyone’s free to use it, though. The en…

> so all the conspiracy theories in this HN thread are incredibly amusing. Microsoft may be just doing something for their needs, and putting in the open like a good citizen of the FOSS world, but the older people who remembers whatever happened back in the day have all their rights to be paranoid about MS. "Eh, this is the old Microsoft, today's one is different" is just a sentence. They still don't (and probably ne…

Well, I have been in the industry for over a quarter of a century (at least) and joined Microsoft around the time Satya presented his “MS Loves Linux” slide, and those people would be amazed at the internal culture around OSS contributions. But having worked at several tech companies and with direct insight into a few others, I’m used to cognitive dissonance between outside views and reality.

(It was a little annoying to get vaguely threatening, but overtly insulting e-mails at my taoofmac.com address the first couple of months, though. Oh, and I’m a Mac user, too. Try to factor that in …)

Re: Is CBL-Mariner going to become Microsoft Linux?

#188

Post by bayindirh »

rcarmo wrote: post #187
bayindirh wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> so all the conspiracy theories in this HN thread are incredibly amusing. Microsoft may be just doing something for their needs, and putting in the open like a good citizen of the FOSS world, but the older people who remembers whatever happened back in the day have all their rights to be paranoid about MS. "Eh, this is the old Microsoft, today's one is different" is just a sentence. They still don't (and probably ne…

Well, I have been in the industry for over a quarter of a century (at least) and joined Microsoft around the time Satya presented his “MS Loves Linux” slide, and those people would be amazed at the internal culture around OSS contributions. But having worked at several tech companies and with direct insight into a few others, I’m used to cognitive dissonance between outside views and reality. (It was a little annoyin…

Everybody is telling the same thing, but with the all Secure Boot debacle, Halloween Documents, GPL violations with Copilot, and other things, it's very difficult to believe and feel this.

When these definitions merge, Microsoft looks like a cozy home with a fireplace inside, but built like a spiky poisonous ball outside, designed to crush anything and everything.

I don't want to act like a bone headed old men yelling to the cloud, but from outside, none of this is visible.

Oh, even Microsoft screwed its own supporters with hot-reload support incident in .NET Core.

Whenever I say myself, "OK, past is past. No need to be this rigid", Microsoft does another thing to make me return to my old stance. Maybe Microsoft needs to be able to see itself from outside?

Re: Is CBL-Mariner going to become Microsoft Linux?

#189

Post by ranguna »

happymellon wrote: post #173
Kukumber wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's very sad how linux ended up being eaten alive, rotten deep inside Devuan [1] or freebsd it is for me until an alternative emerges [1] - https://www.devuan.org/

How is Linux "rotten"?

It's not, I think the OP was just trying to plug alternatives in a toxic way.

Re: Is CBL-Mariner going to become Microsoft Linux?

#190

Post by rcarmo »

bayindirh wrote: post #188
rcarmo wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I have been in the industry for over a quarter of a century (at least) and joined Microsoft around the time Satya presented his “MS Loves Linux” slide, and those people would be amazed at the internal culture around OSS contributions. But having worked at several tech companies and with direct insight into a few others, I’m used to cognitive dissonance between outside views and reality. (It was a little annoyin…

Everybody is telling the same thing, but with the all Secure Boot debacle, Halloween Documents, GPL violations with Copilot, and other things, it's very difficult to believe and feel this. When these definitions merge, Microsoft looks like a cozy home with a fireplace inside, but built like a spiky poisonous ball outside, designed to crush anything and everything. I don't want to act like a bone headed old men yellin…

Well, maybe you should listen to “everybody” a bit more, the way you’re piling on more dislikes and grim figures of speech into what wasn’t an argument is exactly why I never replied to any of those e-mails.
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