Live data from Hacker News

Ex-Reddit CEO on Twitter moderation

twitter.com

841–850 of 975 posts

Re: Ex-Reddit CEO on Twitter moderation

#841
post #586

In the US, where Twitter & Facebook are dominant, the current consensus in the public mind is that political polarization and radicalization are driven by the social media algorithms. However, I have always felt that this explanation was lacking. Here in Brazil we have many of the same problems but the dominant social media are Whatsapp group chats, which have no algorithms whatsoever (other than invisible spam filte…

In a form of putting this at a level of meta-tiers (no, not the company, ugh, why did they ruin one of my favorite words):

1. Is information a neutral abstract unit?

2. Is information as an abstract unit charged with a particular strange attractor?

3. Does language/words hold a particular charge?

4. Is language the life-form and humans the host-form?

Re: Ex-Reddit CEO on Twitter moderation

#842

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It lies in us. As despicable as Facebook is, I wish someone there would just come out and say “have you looked at yourself in the mirror?” It’s mindboggling to see them passively accept the questioning without mentioning that people are wolves and sheeples, and you don’t really need Facebook to join the two. Platforms like Facebook only bring us closer but the rotten core is within us.

People act based on circumstance. If there is a lot of food, people will lean towards sharing their food, and helping others - even anonymously in a truly "altruistic" sense. If everyone is starving, people will lean towards violence and stealing. Does this "expose the rotten core within us?", or is it just saying we have the capacity for both? If we were truly completely rotten we wouldn't share in either case. The…

I don’t think your proposed truth is always true, do you have any data to back that up?

Re: Ex-Reddit CEO on Twitter moderation

#843
post #586

In the US, where Twitter & Facebook are dominant, the current consensus in the public mind is that political polarization and radicalization are driven by the social media algorithms. However, I have always felt that this explanation was lacking. Here in Brazil we have many of the same problems but the dominant social media are Whatsapp group chats, which have no algorithms whatsoever (other than invisible spam filte…

This to me is a vital point. One of the things rarely touched on about Twitter / FB et al are that they are transmission platforms and then a discovery / recommendation layer on top. The "algorithm" is this layer on top and it is assumed that this actively sorts people into their bubbles and people passively follow - there is much discussion about splitting the companies AT&T style to improve matters. But countries w…

The algo loss function is based around the inherent failings (shadow) of humans. Engage the shadow and clickity click click comment.

Essentially scrolls through the various options that will start a fire.

Human nature is what it is. And AI systems are designed to understand it (sometimes not designed but unhappy accidents find them)

Re: Ex-Reddit CEO on Twitter moderation

#844
post #677

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This to me is a vital point. One of the things rarely touched on about Twitter / FB et al are that they are transmission platforms and then a discovery / recommendation layer on top. The "algorithm" is this layer on top and it is assumed that this actively sorts people into their bubbles and people passively follow - there is much discussion about splitting the companies AT&T style to improve matters. But countries w…

I think this gets almost all the way there but not quite — there is one more vital point: How we act depends on our environment and incentives. It is possible to build environments and incentives that make us better versions of ourselves. Just like GPT-3, we can all be primed (and we all are primed all the time, by every system we use). The way we got from small tribes to huge civilizations is by figuring out how to…

But there are communities that make it work and I believe these are negatively affected by general rules we try to establish for social media through some systems.

I don't believe any system can be a solution, it isn't a requirement for a lot of communities either. I don't know what differentiates these groups from others, probably more detachment from content and statements. There is also simply a difference between people that embraced social media to put themselves out there and ghosts that have multiple pseudonyms. Content creators are a different beast, they have to be more public on the net, but that comes with different problems again.

I believe it is behavior and education that would make social media work, but not with the usual approaches. I don't think crass expressions with forbidden words or topics are a problem, on the contrary they can be therapeutic. Just saying because this will be the first thing some people will try to change. Ban some language, ban some content, the usual stuff.

Re: Ex-Reddit CEO on Twitter moderation

#845
> Because it is not TOPICS that are censored. It is BEHAVIOR.

if this were only true. In the past few years the major platforms including HN started censoring TOPICS, in addition to behavior

Also, sites have moderator moderation, and community moderation, and very little is done to rein the community in from squelching unpopular opinions.

Re: Ex-Reddit CEO on Twitter moderation

#846
post #586

In the US, where Twitter & Facebook are dominant, the current consensus in the public mind is that political polarization and radicalization are driven by the social media algorithms. However, I have always felt that this explanation was lacking. Here in Brazil we have many of the same problems but the dominant social media are Whatsapp group chats, which have no algorithms whatsoever (other than invisible spam filte…

In a form of putting this at a level of meta-tiers (no, not the company, ugh, why did they ruin one of my favorite words): 1. Is information a neutral abstract unit? 2. Is information as an abstract unit charged with a particular strange attractor? 3. Does language/words hold a particular charge? 4. Is language the life-form and humans the host-form?

What's a "charge" or "charged"? Examples?

Re: Ex-Reddit CEO on Twitter moderation

#847

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People act based on circumstance. If there is a lot of food, people will lean towards sharing their food, and helping others - even anonymously in a truly "altruistic" sense. If everyone is starving, people will lean towards violence and stealing. Does this "expose the rotten core within us?", or is it just saying we have the capacity for both? If we were truly completely rotten we wouldn't share in either case. The…

I don’t think your proposed truth is always true, do you have any data to back that up?

they made a couple of statements. Which are you asking for clarification on?

Re: Ex-Reddit CEO on Twitter moderation

#848

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The problem are all the other whatsapp groups that I'm not in, which are filled with hateful politics. If you do not like hateful politics, just filter them out - of your own feed. My solution, if implemented, will give you exactly that opportunity.

Great solution! What will you do if your users then filter out everyone who disagrees them and end up forming self radicalizing echo chambers which are highly polarized ?

Echo chambers - in my experience, starting from Fido - are usually created by moderators. Unmoderated, people like arguing no less than having others sharing their views around.

Re: Ex-Reddit CEO on Twitter moderation

#849
post #782

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nobody gets suspended from mainstream social media for simply expressing opposition to transgender gender athletics. This is untrue, people are indeed banned for this: https://www.pcgamer.com/politics-streamer-destiny-receives-i...

From that same article it says that he was banned for "Promoting, encouraging, or facilitating the discrimination or denigration of a group of people based on their protected characteristics". That is harassment, not expressing an opinion. All you did was repeat the banned individual's own opinion about why they were banned. Of course, you are free to think Twitch is lying about its reasons for the ban, but you've of…

> From that same article it says that he was banned for "Promoting, encouraging, or facilitating the discrimination or denigration of a group of people based on their protected characteristics". That is harassment, not expressing an opinion. All you did was repeat the banned individual's own opinion about why they were banned. Of course, you are free to think Twitch is lying about its reasons for the ban, but you've offered no evidence of that.

And what was the nature of that "harassment"? The fact that he didn't agree with the orthodoxy around natal males in women's sports. You're acting out the the exact dynamic I'm talking about: dissenting opinions are labeled harassment or denigration and become bannable offenses. Then people get banned for the "harassment" that is holding a verboten opinion, with no actual harassment taking place. And this is by far from the only example [1].

You're asking me to prove a negative. Who was harassed? Twitch didn't say, and no one can seem to identify a harassment target. When did this harassment occur? Again, nothing is specified. If you can identify a harassment victim it'd be good of you to do so.

> According to that article, the individual also had a history of encouraging the murder of protestors by white militias on Twitch, so sounds like they had plenty of grounds on which to ban him already, and perhaps they finally just got around to it.

If this was the case, the ban would have been for incitement to violence, a separate ToU clause Twitch uses to ban people who call for violence. Not discrimination or denigration of a group on the basis of protected characteristics. Furthermore, these comments occurred two years before the ban - your comment makes it sound like this happened the week before he commented about Thomas. In case you're wondering, in reference to people defending themselves from arsonists (the exact words were, "dipshit protesters that think that they can torch buildings at 10 p.m.") not shooting actual protestors. It continues to amaze me how 10 seconds can be edited to portray someone in a completely opposite light of reality. If you're interested in this creator's leanings, just take a look at a recent video [2].

Espousing dissenting opinions absolutely does get people banned. The reasons cited are harassment, but no harassment victim is identified because holding the prohibited opinion is now considered harassment even if no individual is actually harassed.

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meghan_Murphy#Twitter_ban_and_...

2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXfiUqlK4gU

Re: Ex-Reddit CEO on Twitter moderation

#850
post #832

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Its mere existence made normal users less likely to use Reddit despite users needing to go out of their way to see that objectionable content. To me it’s kind of perverse logic. If a platform hosts persons that some powerful group of people want to be removed - than I can trust the platform to less likely to remove me, when and if I cross some powerful or just loud and anger people. Like: there is a lot of people i…

It’s funny you mention the 14th Amendment. It is a little over 150 years old. For the first century interracial marriage wasn't on the list of protections provided by the 14th. When enough people consistently say you shouldn't be allowed to do something, we won't allow you to do it. When enough people say you should be allowed, you will be. Maybe that is cynical, but that is life in a democracy. Churchill was right a…

> It is a little over 150 years old.

Not everywhere in the world. I’ve spent 40 years in a country without one.

> When enough people consistently say you shouldn't be allowed to do something, we won't allow you to do it.

Exactly. You guys can lose your 1st amendment pretty quickly.

Post reply on HN