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Ex-Reddit CEO on Twitter moderation

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Re: Ex-Reddit CEO on Twitter moderation

#771
Honestly this comes across as a fairly disingenuous take from yishan given how moderation has actually played out on Reddit.

Reddit was able to scale by handing off moderation to the communities themselves and to the unpaid volunteers who wanted to moderate them. In general, I think it is obvious to any casual observer that those volunteers don't see moderation in the same way (or with the same goals) as the platform. For example, many (most?) moderators on Reddit absolutely do ban people not because they are starting flame wars or spamming but because said users aren't toeing the party line. A huge number of subreddits are created specifically for that purpose – "this community has X opinion about Y and if you don't like that you can GTFO".

However even if you ignore the unpaid volunteers moderating subreddits and focus only on the "Admins" that were specifically chosen by Reddit, you can see that the only priority was not increasing the signal-to-noise ratio, including during yishan's tenure. In most cases when a community is banned it is not because the signal-to-noise ratio is too high but because that community has received too much of the negative PR in the press that yishan referred to. Sure, the claim is still "we're trying to maintain the integrity of the platform as a whole and are banning communities for brigading, etc", but you can see based on which communities are banned that this is clearly not the whole story.

Re: Ex-Reddit CEO on Twitter moderation

#772

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> However there is some content that its existence on the platform makes me less likely to use the platform even if I never see it. This really confuses me. Does the fact that people send racist insults at each other in Call of Duty matches via the Internet make you less likely to use the internet?

I think the idea is that the platform has the power to prevent people from saying these things you find (extremely) objectionable, and so you feel compelled not to use said platform if they refuse to do so (and thereby appear to be passively endorsing the behavior).

> and thereby appear to be passively endorsing the behavior).

This “passive endorsing” is a great social construct! It allows anybody to go after TMobile for passively endorsing all the lies I said to pretty women over the phone.

Re: Ex-Reddit CEO on Twitter moderation

#773
post #727

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Promoting violence and harassment is a fundamentally different type of speech than disagreeing with the prevailing local opinion on a controversial subject that has many shades of gray (that your examples intentionally lack). Plenty of people disagree, and do indeed claim that not letting a transgender woman compete against natal females is harassment towards transgender people. Heck, I've even seen people claim th…

> Plenty of people disagree, and do indeed claim that not letting a transgender woman compete against natal females is harassment towards transgender people. Heck, I've even seen people claim that this is genocide. It's a ridiculous claim but so what? It has no teeth anyways. Nobody gets suspended from mainstream social media for simply expressing opposition to transgender gender athletics. They get suspended for act…

> Nobody gets suspended from mainstream social media for simply expressing opposition to transgender gender athletics.

This is untrue, people are indeed banned for this: https://www.pcgamer.com/politics-streamer-destiny-receives-i...

Re: Ex-Reddit CEO on Twitter moderation

#774

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wasn't my intention to litigate this story here. I was simply citing it as an example of the difficulty of identifying misinformation. Also, I think a fair discussion of Twitter moderation should include a post-mortem of one of their most famous mistakes, discussing what Twitter did and what should they have done differently, and not so much the story itself. (Of course, the substance is also important, but this i…

That's just it: I don't think it was a mistake (if we're talking "censorship" about the laptop story). The story is radioactive . The veracity of it means nothing -- just the phrase is now a talking point, a campaign slogan. If my points are correct per the prior comment, what good does it serve the people to be amplified in a short attention span economy? Why shine light on dialog that sucks oxygen out of the room?…

Twitter made it impossible to Tweet links to the story. A dialog box showed an error message if you tried to share the link: https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/10/twitter-facebook-blo...

This is an extraordinary technological measure. Plenty of things posted on Twitter turn out to be false, misleading, or not worth shining light on. This one turned out to be true, and yet earned the most extreme sanction Twitter is capable of: prior restraint on speech.

Re: Ex-Reddit CEO on Twitter moderation

#776
post #499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's trivial to demonstrate that YouTube and Twitter (easy examples) primarily target conservatives with their "moderation". Terrible take. Actual data analysis shows that at worst conservatives are moderated equally, and at best, less than non-conservatives. Here's something to chew on: https://forward.com/fast-forward/423238/twitter-white-nation...

You didn't link to data, you linked to an opinion from Vice laundered through another outlet. Here is some actual data, which (predictably) shows that conservatives are targeted significantly more for suspensions: https://archive.ph/SDo33 But that's besides the point, because it's much simpler than that. You don't need elaborate analysis to see that people tired of Twitter "moderation" filled 4 other platforms: Gab,…

I said that at best it is impartial, and if anything, is more permissive to conservatives.

The fact that your "logic" is that extremists like KKK and other rightwing nut jobs are not allowed on twitter and thus have to create their own sites is proof of a double standard is absolutely insane.

You're so busy with your persecution fetish you cannot even see simple reason.

Re: Ex-Reddit CEO on Twitter moderation

#777

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to be demanding that Twitter adopt policies and features despite the fact the market has shown those policies and features will shrink their user base and their profit. "Pay-to-play Twitter" was already tried. It was called "App.net" and it was a failure: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/App.net

Demanding? No. I think it's a smart business decision and removes a ton of overhead and stress. And no, App.net was Dalton Caldwell's halfhearted attempt (the UI was okay at best) after Twitter already had the network effect in motion (six years after Twitter launched).

There are no successful "pay for access" social media networks, and the argument that Twitter's dominance some how held App.net back ignores all the other social networks that succeeded despite being founded after Twitter.

Re: Ex-Reddit CEO on Twitter moderation

#778

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's just it: I don't think it was a mistake (if we're talking "censorship" about the laptop story). The story is radioactive . The veracity of it means nothing -- just the phrase is now a talking point, a campaign slogan. If my points are correct per the prior comment, what good does it serve the people to be amplified in a short attention span economy? Why shine light on dialog that sucks oxygen out of the room?…

Twitter made it impossible to Tweet links to the story. A dialog box showed an error message if you tried to share the link: https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/10/twitter-facebook-blo... This is an extraordinary technological measure. Plenty of things posted on Twitter turn out to be false, misleading, or not worth shining light on. This one turned out to be true, and yet earned the most extreme sanction Twitter is…

What turned out to be true?

The findings per the GOP Senate committee: https://www.grassley.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/grassley_johns...

Re: Ex-Reddit CEO on Twitter moderation

#779

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This to me is a vital point. One of the things rarely touched on about Twitter / FB et al are that they are transmission platforms and then a discovery / recommendation layer on top. The "algorithm" is this layer on top and it is assumed that this actively sorts people into their bubbles and people passively follow - there is much discussion about splitting the companies AT&T style to improve matters. But countries w…

> It lies in us. As despicable as Facebook is, I wish someone there would just come out and say “have you looked at yourself in the mirror?” It’s mindboggling to see them passively accept the questioning without mentioning that people are wolves and sheeples, and you don’t really need Facebook to join the two. Platforms like Facebook only bring us closer but the rotten core is within us.

People act based on circumstance.

If there is a lot of food, people will lean towards sharing their food, and helping others - even anonymously in a truly "altruistic" sense.

If everyone is starving, people will lean towards violence and stealing.

Does this "expose the rotten core within us?", or is it just saying we have the capacity for both? If we were truly completely rotten we wouldn't share in either case.

The fact is that environment and circumstance are inexorably tied in with our behaviour - a fact that we seem to wish to see negatively, our ideal being a perfect person who operates with true altruism in all circumstances regardless of personal cost.

Throwing our hands up and saying "go look at yourself in the mirror" is missing the big picture in my view, which is that if you want a good behavioural outcome, the environment and context of the behaviour is one of the biggest factor, and is a big target to attempt to improve. If more people are operating in a positive environment, you get more positivity.

Personal accountability, yes, is a thing, but is quite a lot more difficult to instil and improve from within a smaller slice of the world, like an app, and is more of a greater societal concern or otherwise would require propagation of an ideal with a reach that is quite hard to achieve through your app.

Re: Ex-Reddit CEO on Twitter moderation

#780
post #749

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is all quite naive. People flock to other people that make them feel the way they want to feel, and tell them what they want to do is okay. People find these groups organically too, or form them themselves, through friend associations, not just by having them pushed. A lot of people like to feel angry against someone (the other), as it gives them a sense of control and power. Joining others who are similarly ali…

If the assumption is that as a consequence of allowing people to filter things themselves more, everyone will just get along, understand each other, and all political problems will disappear/people will become enlightened and cease to be ignorant, then yes, it's incredibly naive. This was the case made by people setting up these platforms without filters. That's not my assumption. I think echo chambers are impossible…

Near as I can tell, these ‘natural forms of competency and organizational filters’ are not natural, and never have been.

If they were, Nazi Germany would not have been what it was.

Also, baked into what you’re saying seems to be an assumption that if no one was prompted to start a fight, no one would fight. And that is true sometimes, with many people. But that is definitely not true of everyone, let alone everyone all the time!

The forms of social organization which are natural to us are easily directed towards hate of ‘outside’ groups, which can be easily constructed from any easily identifiable group of people with the right set of conditions. Even without prompting, it naturally arises based on visual identifiers and in many common environmental triggers.

In fact, near as I can tell, the only thing stopping larger scale movements of exactly that type is cultural memory of the death, destruction, and terribleness that results from it, resulting in active pressure against anyone trying to form a similar group. The ‘my grandfather fought a war against Nazi’s, you’re not going to be a Nazi’ type of memory.

Which fades with time, and isn’t natural to anyone?

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