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Study urges caution when comparing neural networks to the brain

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Re: Study urges caution when comparing neural networks to the brain

#21
post #12

philosophers caution when comparing an analogy to a thing

I think it’s also important to highlight that the analogy between neural networks and brains is to help people visualize what a neural network is, not what a brain is. It’s really just to convey the idea of multiple nodes passing information to one another. After that point, the comparison is useless because the two systems diverge so wildly outside of that one (pretty loose) conceptual connection.

Re: Study urges caution when comparing neural networks to the brain

#22
From the actual study's abstract:

> Unique to Neuroscience, deep learning models can be used not only as a tool but interpreted as models of the brain. The central claims of recent deep learning-based models of brain circuits are that they make novel predictions about neural phenomena or shed light on the fundamental functions being optimized... Using large-scale hyperparameter sweeps and theory-driven experimentation, we demonstrate that the results of such models may be more strongly driven by particular, non-fundamental, and post-hoc implementation choices than fundamental truths about neural circuits or the loss function(s) they might optimize. Finally, we discuss why these models cannot be expected to produce accurate models of the brain without the addition of substantial amounts of inductive bias, an informal No Free Lunch result for Neuroscience. In conclusion, caution and consideration, together with biological knowledge, are warranted in building and interpreting deep learning models in Neuroscience.

And IMO a succinct description of the problematic assumption being cautioned against in the study's introduction section:

> Broadly, the essential claims of DL-based models of the brain are that 1) Because the models are trained on a specific optimization problem, if the resulting representations match what has been observed in the brain, then they reveal the optimization problem of the brain, or 2) That these models, when trained on sensibly motivated optimization problems, should make novel predictions about the brain’s representations and emergent behavior.

---

I think to most, the problem with claim number 2 directly above is obvious, but it's important to also look at claim 1.

Re: Study urges caution when comparing neural networks to the brain

#23
post #10

this article makes me sad ... a neural network can be also a network of biological neurons, the author means artificial neural network https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neural_network the Wikipedia article even goes into the differences, so why did we need a study for that? A study urges caution comparing Jellyfish to Jelley ... tasters found they are not the same (even though I hear that fried jellyfish taste nice...)…

The brain is not involved in a whole lot of behaviors though. Cells organize themselves to an extent. Cuts heal without us focusing conscious thought on them.

The brain is a hard drive but the body is the whole computer.

Science is proving physical causation. Not just writing down what we want to be true.

Re: Study urges caution when comparing neural networks to the brain

#24
post #10

this article makes me sad ... a neural network can be also a network of biological neurons, the author means artificial neural network https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neural_network the Wikipedia article even goes into the differences, so why did we need a study for that? A study urges caution comparing Jellyfish to Jelley ... tasters found they are not the same (even though I hear that fried jellyfish taste nice...)…

The brain is not involved in a whole lot of behaviors though. Cells organize themselves to an extent. Cuts heal without us focusing conscious thought on them. The brain is a hard drive but the body is the whole computer. Science is proving physical causation. Not just writing down what we want to be true.

https://thedebrief.org/is-consciousness-really-a-memory-syst...

Re: Study urges caution when comparing neural networks to the brain

#25
Last week's Lex Fridman podcast featured Andrej Karpathy (former director of AI at Tesla, founding member of OpenAI) and they discussed this aspect briefly also.

The usefulness of neural networks has not ceased, despite researchers' early ideas and hopes about its biological analogies having somewhat sheared away.

Re: Study urges caution when comparing neural networks to the brain

#26
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Move to China or North Korea I guess? Still seems to have problems with graft though.

Ah the exceptional minds of the US. “If it smells like a violation of politically correct tradition as I know it, it’s communism!”

Not American, but you asked for planned economy: those are it.

Re: Study urges caution when comparing neural networks to the brain

#27
post #22

From the actual study's abstract: > Unique to Neuroscience, deep learning models can be used not only as a tool but interpreted as models of the brain. The central claims of recent deep learning-based models of brain circuits are that they make novel predictions about neural phenomena or shed light on the fundamental functions being optimized... Using large-scale hyperparameter sweeps and theory-driven experimentatio…

[deleted]

Re: Study urges caution when comparing neural networks to the brain

#28
Here's my guess: neurons tap into quantum mechanics but we are too primitive to understand that for now. The brain was initially modeled as humors/fluids back when we developed aqueducts, then telegraph came into the scene and it was modeled as electrical impulses and now computers/ML are popular therefore we see it as a neural network. Next step is quantum.

Re: Study urges caution when comparing neural networks to the brain

#30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah the exceptional minds of the US. “If it smells like a violation of politically correct tradition as I know it, it’s communism!”

Not American, but you asked for planned economy: those are it.

China is definitely not a “planned economy” in a sense that you meant it. Also, every economy is planned in some sense. Every government plans how much it’s going to make and spend.
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