Stripe laying off around 14% of workforce • Hacker News Board

Re: Stripe laying off around 14% of workforce

#281

Post by Nifty3929 » Thu, Nov 03, 2022, 3:30 PM UTC

mooreds wrote: post #235

Nifty3929 wrote: post #190

Layoffs are not an indication of failure. Not on those who get laid off, those that remain, or senior leadership. The universe is a dynamic, changing place. People [should] move in and out of jobs and industries in response to those changes in the world. This is a good thing, and much better than blindly doing the same thing forever, in the face of changes. I don't know the specifics of Stripe's business at all, but…

> Layoffs are not an indication of failure. Not on those who get laid off, those that remain, or senior leadership. I appreciate the sentiment, but think it is hard to believe when you are in it. As someone who got laid off, it sure doesn't feel that way. I felt like a failure, and was angry. It took me about a year to get over it. I've also been part of the "go forward" group (to use the parlance of our times) and t…

Agreed! Sorry you had to go through that, both ways. It's super tough for those being laid off.

Re: Stripe laying off around 14% of workforce

#282

Post by alexpetralia » Thu, Nov 03, 2022, 3:30 PM UTC

pid-1 wrote: post #20

> In making these changes, you might reasonably wonder whether Stripe’s leadership made some errors of judgment. We’d go further than that. In our view, we made two very consequential mistakes, and we want to highlight them here since they’re important: > - We were much too optimistic about the internet economy’s near-term growth in 2022 and 2023 and underestimated both the likelihood and impact of a broader slowdown…

I would argue CEOs generally find it optimal to "overgrow" during boom periods and "cut" during bust periods. This is why we see the routinely observe the pattern. It is not because a bunch of confused CEOs are constantly making mistakes. This was expected, even planned for (if not explicitly). This is how startups work. Overgrow, then cut, then overgrow again. Layoffs, especially around moonshots or non-revenue-generating teams, are only problematic for PR purposes.

Re: Stripe laying off around 14% of workforce

#283

Post by CosmicShadow » Thu, Nov 03, 2022, 3:31 PM UTC

groffee wrote: post #173

nsxwolf wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would make it better in your eyes? A year's severance? 2 years?

It's not about the severance. It's about the empty platitudes they and all people like them spew. "they take responsibility" what does that even mean? It's meaningless. Are they taking a paycut themselves? Letting themselves go instead of their employes? Cutting down on bonuses to keep their people employed?

They have to live with it and feel like shit and still run THEIR business. You make a mistake, you don't fire yourself and give up everything you work for, you do the best you can and move on. Don't like how they operate? Build your own business and hire thousands of people and then when you make a mistake fire yourself instead.

Re: Stripe laying off around 14% of workforce

#284

Post by randomdata » Thu, Nov 03, 2022, 3:31 PM UTC

tempsy wrote: post #216

imnotreallynew wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Goodness, I’d voluntarily take that deal anyday. 3.5 months of paid vacation at the salaries Stripe pays? Yes please. I just read the rest. On top of 3.5 months pay, they get accelerated vesting, cash payment for healthcare benefits, all unused PTO paid, and more. That’s incredible.

Not sure if frantically interviewing for a new job during the holidays when lots of tech companies are also laying people off can be considered a vacation.

Maybe if you're the janitor, but based on the quip about the salaries Stripe pays, the parent is presumably looking at this from a developer's perspective. That's a payout of around $73,000.

If you are handed $73,000 and still need to frantically look for a new job, something strange is going on.

Re: Stripe laying off around 14% of workforce

#285

Post by pcthrowaway » Thu, Nov 03, 2022, 3:32 PM UTC

mooreds wrote: post #235

Nifty3929 wrote: post #190

Layoffs are not an indication of failure. Not on those who get laid off, those that remain, or senior leadership. The universe is a dynamic, changing place. People [should] move in and out of jobs and industries in response to those changes in the world. This is a good thing, and much better than blindly doing the same thing forever, in the face of changes. I don't know the specifics of Stripe's business at all, but…

> Layoffs are not an indication of failure. Not on those who get laid off, those that remain, or senior leadership. I appreciate the sentiment, but think it is hard to believe when you are in it. As someone who got laid off, it sure doesn't feel that way. I felt like a failure, and was angry. It took me about a year to get over it. I've also been part of the "go forward" group (to use the parlance of our times) and t…

On the other hand, I've survived several layoffs in my tenure in the industry, and for at least one of those was pissed off that I wasn't one of the laid off (would have gladly taken a paid vacation when I was burnt out on the job anyway)

Re: Stripe laying off around 14% of workforce

#286

Post by luxcem » Thu, Nov 03, 2022, 3:32 PM UTC

skidev wrote: post #27

14% seems like a very high number to me to axe at once, how have you got 1 in 7 employees that your business doesn't need to function when it is growing.

With 3x growth during the pandemic it seems that the layoff would be avoidable by reducing future growth factor. So what the letter doesn't say is that they layoff people to have better numbers to show to investors, not because it's not sustainable.

Re: Stripe laying off around 14% of workforce

#287

Post by idiotsecant » Thu, Nov 03, 2022, 3:34 PM UTC

tempsy wrote: post #216

imnotreallynew wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Goodness, I’d voluntarily take that deal anyday. 3.5 months of paid vacation at the salaries Stripe pays? Yes please. I just read the rest. On top of 3.5 months pay, they get accelerated vesting, cash payment for healthcare benefits, all unused PTO paid, and more. That’s incredible.

Not sure if frantically interviewing for a new job during the holidays when lots of tech companies are also laying people off can be considered a vacation.

Compare that to the average experience of the vast majority of people who aren't a software engineer and a person might be forgiven for thinking it looks like an incredibly privileged vacation.

Re: Stripe laying off around 14% of workforce

#288

Post by tempsy » Thu, Nov 03, 2022, 3:34 PM UTC

randomdata wrote: post #284

tempsy wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure if frantically interviewing for a new job during the holidays when lots of tech companies are also laying people off can be considered a vacation.

Maybe if you're the janitor, but based on the quip about the salaries Stripe pays, the parent is presumably looking at this from a developer's perspective. That's a payout of around $73,000. If you are handed $73,000 and still need to frantically look for a new job, something strange is going on.

i’m not referring to running out of money, just the idea that it’s harder to interview during the time around the holidays and immediately after, and we are in a period where these layoffs are macro driven so lots of people are competing against you for the same roles

also all the income and benefits are taxable

Re: Stripe laying off around 14% of workforce

#289

Post by throwaway2203 » Thu, Nov 03, 2022, 3:34 PM UTC

rexreed wrote: post #245

Stripe stresses me out. I really cringe worrying about having too many financial eggs in the Stripe basket. But Paypal is no alternative and traditional CC processors are awful. How does one hedge their bets with Stripe? I worry one day we'll hit some transaction "trigger" and then all our money will get locked up in Stripe with no customer support recourse. I fear being "too successful" with no recourse if I depend…

What's wrong with PayPal?

Re: Stripe laying off around 14% of workforce

#290

Post by bumby » Thu, Nov 03, 2022, 3:35 PM UTC

scarface74 wrote: post #226

memish wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's in the email: Severance pay. We will pay 14 weeks of severance for all departing employees, and more for those with longer tenure. That is, those departing will be paid until at least February 21st 2023. Bonus. We will pay our 2022 annual bonus for all departing employees, regardless of their departure date. (It will be prorated for people hired in 2022.) PTO. We’ll pay for all unused PTO time (including in re…

This is what I hate about the internet rage machine. No research was done by people automatically assuming that the company was just going to send the employees packing with “thoughts and prayers”. That’s very generous severance and the company doing right by its employees. I don’t know how long the process is for non US citizens. But in my over 25 year career, and changing jobs eight times as a software developer, i…

>This is what I hate about the internet rage machine.

I think the issue (also related to how we interface with the internet) is that most of these replies completely dodged the question. The OP was asking about personal accountability, not about "how are your going to make this as palatable as possible?"

Consider two scenarios:

(1) A manager fires half their workforce, but gives them a generous severance. In response, the manager gets a massive bonus.

(2) A manager fires half their workforce, but gives them a generous severance. In response, the manager forgoes their salary for a year for being the one making that decision.

The second has personal accountability because they are making a personal sacrifice beyond what they expect from their subordinates, even though the employees are affected equally. I'd be willing to bet one organization has more institutional trust than the other.