Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Stripe laying off around 14% of workforce

stripe.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

201–210 of 1001 posts

Re: Stripe laying off around 14% of workforce

#201

Post by bumby »

lefstathiou wrote: post #134
eganist wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's how they're supporting their employees, but this would've already been accounted for anyway (the vesting, potential bonuses, pay through Feb 2023, etc), so this isn't accountability so much as it's "we'll, we won't see the immediate benefit until March" Would've been a different story for instance if pc/jc were diluted with new grants to departing and existing employees.

What more do you want? They are paying out millions in cash ("out of the goodness in their heart"... ie they don't have to and people shouldnt expect) which is directly reducing the value of the equity, which impacts them more than anyone else by a huge proportion. Handing out equity grants makes no little sense to me and is unlikely what these employees want... "hey you're fired, here's some stock at our latest valu…

I think the issue comes from the idea that in tough times, good leaders take their lumps before they expect it from their team. There's lots of colloquialisms that seem to fit this:

"Leaders eat last"

"We cut the fat starting at the top"

"Leaders need to have endurance beyond their troops"

I have no skin in the game either. The severance packages are commendable, but I don't think it actually answers the OP's question about accountability. I don't want to speak for the other commenter, but I think what they're looking for is some indication that the leadership has personally sacrificed something equal to or exceeding what they expected out of their subordinates. Giving out millions in severance, while commendable, isn't a personal sacrifice.

Re: Stripe laying off around 14% of workforce

#202

Post by jasmer »

This is the part I don't like.

Stripe is a hugely successful company and they have no urgent material need to let people go. This is an optimization effort.

I actually do believe that 'pruning' is a healthy thing for organizations, to enable them to be nimble and dynamic - however - obviously this comes at great social cost.

The benefits of 'pruning' come at the cost of externalizing regular, creating real human challenges.

One somewhat obvious solution might be to 'reallocate' people for a while, and have them do 'window dressing' (like in Japan) while this happens. Some would argue this doesn't get you to the pruning, because there needs to be an element of existential churn, but I suggest otherwise.

At minimum, growing companies should 'find stuff' for people to do. Stripe is 100% looking to the future, there is no doubt, so maybe we can try to find a way to make this work on their future endeavours.

I feel that the whole 'California' project elides the negatives: homelessness in Los Angeles has reached impossible levels, there always were enormous problems with equality at least partially due to lack of civil resources, adverse school funding etc..

This is not a 'model' to brag about.

I think we can do better.

Re: Stripe laying off around 14% of workforce

#203

Post by shuckles »

eganist wrote: post #47

Hey pc, if you're around: > John and I are fully responsible for the decisions leading up to it. What are the two of you doing to show accountability? Are you slashing your own future stock grants, cutting your own salaries, diluting your positions with stock grants to everyone else? What's the consequence for this decision on your end that shows you're accountable for what happened, not just responsible for it? Sinc…

I don’t understand responses like this. They are returning to February headcount. The executive team also made the long term planning decisions which gave those people jobs for the last 9 months (and income for the next 3). Would the right thing to do have been not choosing to give more people a living for 13 months at least? Are companies to never speculatively invest in growth?

Re: Stripe laying off around 14% of workforce

#204

Post by chasd00 »

memish wrote: post #90
eganist wrote: post #47

Hey pc, if you're around: > John and I are fully responsible for the decisions leading up to it. What are the two of you doing to show accountability? Are you slashing your own future stock grants, cutting your own salaries, diluting your positions with stock grants to everyone else? What's the consequence for this decision on your end that shows you're accountable for what happened, not just responsible for it? Sinc…

That's in the email: Severance pay. We will pay 14 weeks of severance for all departing employees, and more for those with longer tenure. That is, those departing will be paid until at least February 21st 2023. Bonus. We will pay our 2022 annual bonus for all departing employees, regardless of their departure date. (It will be prorated for people hired in 2022.) PTO. We’ll pay for all unused PTO time (including in re…

if you walk out on Friday and start a new job on Monday does the severance still apply? This setup is incredibly generous in my mind to the point where there's a lot of incentive to get laid off. If you got another job in a couple days and severance was still paid by Stripe then that+PTO+RSU+typical signing bonus is one hell of a payday.

Re: Stripe laying off around 14% of workforce

#205

Post by czbond »

TomBombadildoze wrote: post #176
czbond wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ya know.... Founders and CEO's are responsible every day. They created the business for people to have jobs, they have to deal with it when the business cannot support the jobs. When things in the macro economy change, sometimes the business can't operate at the same level it was before. People like to on CEO's & leaders in good times, but employees often forget that while the employee can just go get another job, th…

Please. Stripe is privately held so let's look at a market comp, SQ. SQ 2021 Revenue: $17B SQ 2021 cash and short term investments: $5.3B Stripe 2021 Revenue: $12B Similar businesses, operating in the same market, with the nearly the same number of employees (about 8000). Barring exceptional circumstances, we would expect their financial health to be roughly similar. You said it yourself: > the leaders have to... [de…

Disagree. A CEO does not cut employees during a time when others are laying off unless business doesn't need / can't support/ not prudent to retain those employees.

Why? Because periods like now is the absolute best time to steal market share from established companies - which would grow the team and business. Startups (competitors) begin to post less risk because they'll be hard to find financing.

So - if growing the business is a CEO's top responsibility...if the leadership felt they could steal business from others that experience attrition - they would. My guess is they don't seem to feel that way about the current moment.

Re: Stripe laying off around 14% of workforce

#206

Post by cbreynoldson »

ryandrake wrote: post #162
colechristensen wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think whatever a leader does which isn’t ritual suicide when announcing layoffs is going to get criticism. People in power hired when expecting an uptick and fired when expecting a downtick.

That's kind of the fundamental problem of megawealth: You can't actually be held accountable for anything short of "ritual suicide". When a senior exec or CxO screws up, what conceivably could punish them? Lose their salary for a year? Ineffective. The wealthy make more from interest on their investments than they could ever need to live. What else could punish them? Their stock value going down? Oooh.. Mark Zuckerbe…

> Why do people keep working and earning more when they are set for life--what actual practical purpose does megawealth serve once you've guaranteed your standard of living for you and your offspring?

I think this is the wrong question to ask -- "what end is this a means to anymore". One of the largest challenges in life is pursuit of meaning, and Zuck has, at least he thinks, found it. He still has consequences, but they are higher up on Maslow's hierarchy of needs.

You could argue that those in charge should have enough at stake to feel the burn of a layoff like this, but this issue isn't dissimilar to biology. We often make local (and temporary) sacrifices on behalf our own bodies, knowing "we" will still be around afterwards to enjoy life and the removed parts won't (removing limbs, wiping out blood cells, organ removal, etc.). This isn't 1:1 with Zuck, because Zuck is more than just his role in Meta, but close enough.

Re: Stripe laying off around 14% of workforce

#207

Post by chamblin »

antihero wrote: post #177
imnotreallynew wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Goodness, I’d voluntarily take that deal anyday. 3.5 months of paid vacation at the salaries Stripe pays? Yes please. I just read the rest. On top of 3.5 months pay, they get accelerated vesting, cash payment for healthcare benefits, all unused PTO paid, and more. That’s incredible.

Isn’t it mandatory to pay holiday accrued? Because it’s been, well, accrued…

For what it's worth, Stripe is the only place I've ever worked that did not pay out accrued PTO. It does so only in jurisdictions where it is legally required.

Re: Stripe laying off around 14% of workforce

#208

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

ryandrake wrote: post #162
colechristensen wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think whatever a leader does which isn’t ritual suicide when announcing layoffs is going to get criticism. People in power hired when expecting an uptick and fired when expecting a downtick.

That's kind of the fundamental problem of megawealth: You can't actually be held accountable for anything short of "ritual suicide". When a senior exec or CxO screws up, what conceivably could punish them? Lose their salary for a year? Ineffective. The wealthy make more from interest on their investments than they could ever need to live. What else could punish them? Their stock value going down? Oooh.. Mark Zuckerbe…

People keep working and earning more because they genuinely enjoy doing it. Would you really prefer the traditional alternative, where rich people become full-time idlers and look down their noses at those of us who have jobs?

Re: Stripe laying off around 14% of workforce

#210

Post by mritchie712 »

tempsy wrote: post #36

I feel bad for employees that have waited a decade to cash out. No reason why Stripe couldn’t have gone public in 2020-2021 at a huge valuation but from past interviews it sounds like the decision to remain private was just a founder preference thing because “focus” or something. Now the IPO market is completely frozen and its valuation is likely cut in half from peak, at least.

There's a healthy secondary market for companies like Stripe. Employees there can sell a good amount of their stock already (and have likely been able to for years).
Post reply on HN