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Ex-Reddit CEO on Twitter moderation

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Re: Ex-Reddit CEO on Twitter moderation

#91
I've had to give this some thought for other reasons, and after a couple decades solving analogous problems to moderation in security, I agree with yishan about signal to noise over the specific content, but what I have effectively spent a career studying and detecting with data is a single factor: malice.

It's something every person is capable of, and it takes a lot of exercise and practice with higher values to reach for something else when your expectations are challenged, and often it's an active choice to recognize the urge and act differently. If there were a rule or razor I would make on a forum or platform, it's that all content has to pass the bar of being without malice. It's not "assume good intent," it's recognizing that there are ways of having very difficult opinions without malice, and one can have conventional views that are malicious, and unconventional ones that are not. If you have ever dealt with a prosecutor or been on the wrong side of a legal dispute, these are people fundamentally actuated by malice, and the similar prosecution of ideas and opinions (and ultimately people) is what wrecks a forum.

It's not about being polite or civil, avoiding conflict, or even avoiding mockery and some very funny and unexpected smackdowns either. It's a quality that in being universally capable of it, I think we're also able to know it when we see it. "Hate," is a weak substitute because it is so vague we can apply it to anything, but malice is ancient and essential. Of course someone malicious can just redefine malice the way they have done other things and use it as an accusation because words have no meaning other than as a means in struggle, but really, you can see when someone is actuated by it.

I think there is a point where a person decides, consciously or not, that they will relate to the world around them with malice, and the first casulty of that is an alignment to honesty and truth. What makes it useful is that you can address malice directly and restore an equillibrium in the discourse, whereas accusations of hate and others are irrevocable judgments. I'd wonder if given it's applicability, this may be the tool.

Re: Ex-Reddit CEO on Twitter moderation

#92
post #4

> Our current climate of political polarization makes it easy to think itʻs about the content of the speech, or hate speech, or misinformation, or censorship, or etc etc. Are we sure that it is not the other way around? Didn't social platforms created or increased polarization? I always see this comments from social platforms that take as fact that society is polarized and they work hard to fix it, when I believe tha…

> Are we sure that it is not the other way around? Didn't social platforms created or increased polarization? The process of polarization (in the US) started decades ago: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Why_We%27re_Polarized In fact it seems that people were always polarized, it's just that the political parties (R & D in the US) didn't really bother sorting themselves on topics until the 1960s: even in the 1970s and…

I think political parties only later began astroturfing on social media and split users in camps. Formerly content on reddit in default subreddits often had low quality, but you still got some nice topics here and there. Now it is a propaganda hellhole that is completely in the hands of pretty polarized users.

> "Us versus them" seems to be baked into the structure of humans.

Not quite, but one of the most effective temptations one can offer is giving people a moral excuse to hate others. Best when see as those as responsible for all evil in the world. It feels good to judge, it distracts from your own faults, flaws, insecurities, fears and problems. This is pretty blatant and has become far, far worse than the formerly perhaps populist content on reddit. We especially see this on political topics, but also the pandemic as an example.

Re: Ex-Reddit CEO on Twitter moderation

#93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reddit tried to just let communities moderate themselves. It resulted in rampant child pornography, doxxing, death threats, gory violence etc. It epitomised the worst of humanity. Now the Reddit admins keep a watch on moderators and if their subreddits do not meet site-wide standards they are replaced.

It resulted in people _saying_ all those things happened, but never did.

You mean like this list of banned subreddits:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controversial_Reddit_communiti...

"The community (Beatingwomen), which featured graphic depictions of violence against women, was banned after its moderators were found to be sharing users' personal information online"

"According to Reddit administrators, photos of gymnast McKayla Maroney and MTV actress Liz Lee, shared to 130,000 people on popular forum r/TheFappening, constitute child pornography"

Re: Ex-Reddit CEO on Twitter moderation

#94

I like yishan's content and his climate focus, but this "we interrupt your tweet thread for sponsored content" style tangent is a bit annoying - not directly for doing it or its content, but because I can see other thread writers picking this up and we end up the same as Youtube with sponsored sections of content that you can't ad block . FWIW With YT you can block them with Sponsorblock, which works with user submit…

While many YouTube videos provide very interesting content most twitter „threads“ are just inane ramblings by some blue checkmark. So for yt videos I go the extra steps to install an extension. For twitter though? I just close the tab and never return. How can people who are not totally dopamine deprived zombies find twitter and this terrible „thread“ format acceptable? Just write a coherent blog post pls.

Dopamine-deprived zombies?

I don’t find threads hard to read. There’s some extra scrolling, but it’s still in linear order.

People post on Twitter because it reaches people, obviously.

Re: Ex-Reddit CEO on Twitter moderation

#95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reddit tried to just let communities moderate themselves. It resulted in rampant child pornography, doxxing, death threats, gory violence etc. It epitomised the worst of humanity. Now the Reddit admins keep a watch on moderators and if their subreddits do not meet site-wide standards they are replaced.

So instead of moderating users, you moderate moderators, still seems like a net win.

[deleted]

Re: Ex-Reddit CEO on Twitter moderation

#96
post #3

When people ask you why you hate twitter threads, show them this hodgepodge of short sentences with sandwiched CO2 removal advertisements.

>this hodgepodge of short sentences with sandwiched CO2 removal advertisements

I had to stop after the tree myths. Was it related to content moderation at all?

Re: Ex-Reddit CEO on Twitter moderation

#97

Every single social media platform that has ever existed makes the same fundamental mistake. They believe that they just have to remove or block the bad actors and bad content and that will make the platform good. The reality is everyone , myself included, can be and will be a bad actor. How do you build and run a "social media" product when the very act of letting anyone respond to anyone with anything is itself the…

How do you build and run a "social media" product when the very act of letting anyone respond to anyone with anything is itself the fundamental problem?

This isn't the problem as much as giving bad actors tools to enhance their reach. Bad actors can pay to get a wider reach or get/abuse a mark of authority, like a special tag on their handle, getting highlighted in a special place within the app, gaming the algorithm that promotes some content, etc. Most of these tools are built into the platform. Some though, like sock puppets, can be detected but aren't necessarily built in functionality.

Re: Ex-Reddit CEO on Twitter moderation

#98
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

my guess is that people can like () individual posts. The positive of that is: a) possibility to like () just one post, or 2, 3… depending of who good the thread is b) the fine granular way to like () gives the algorithm way better possibilities to whom to show a thread and even better, to first show just one intereting post out of that thread (also people can mores easily quote or retweet individual parts of a threa…

Why are you adding () after "like"? Havent seen that convention before, so I am unaware of the meaning.

There may have been an emoji or Unicode character between the parens that was stripped by HN.

Re: Ex-Reddit CEO on Twitter moderation

#99
post #11

Reading these threads on twitter is like listening to a friend having a bad mdma trip replaying his whole emotional life to you in a semi incoherent diarrhea like stream of thoughts Please write a book, or at the very least an article... posting on twitter is like writing something on a piece of paper, showing it to your best friend and worst enemy before throwing it in the trash

I've never understood this, it's just reading: you start at the beginning of tweet, you read it, then go to the next tweet and read it. How is that different from reading paragraphs?

I think this is important enough to highlight. Tweets are very different from other forms of communication on the internet. You can see it even here on HN in the comments section.

Twitter railroads the discussion into a particular type by the form of discourse. Each tweet, whether it's meant to or not, is more akin to a self contained atomic statement then a paragraph relating to a whole. This steers tweets into short statements of opinion masquerading as humble, genuine statements of fact. Often times each tweet is a simple idea that's given more weight because it's presented in tweet form. An extreme example is the joke thread of listing out each letter of the alphabet [0] [1].

When tweets are responding to another tweet, it comes off as one of the two extreme choices of being a shallow affirmation or a combative "hot take".

Compare this with the comments section here. Responses are, for the most part, respectful. Comments tend to address multiple points at once, often interweaving them together. When text is quoted, it's not meant as a hot take but a refresher on the specific point that they're addressing.

The HN comments section has its problems but, to me, it's night and day from Twitter.

I basically completely avoid responding to most everything on Twitter for this reason. Anything other than a superficial "good job" or "wow" is taken as a challenge and usually gets a nasty response. I also have to actively ignore many tweets, even from people I like and respect, because the format over emphasizes trivial observations or opinions.

[0] https://twitter.com/dancerghoul/status/1327361236686811143

[1] https://twitter.com/ChaikaGaming/status/1270330453053132800

Re: Ex-Reddit CEO on Twitter moderation

#100
His argument makes no sense. If this is indeed why they are banning people, why keep the reasoning a secret? Honestly, every ban should come with a public explanation from the network, in order to deter similar behavior. The way things are right now, it's unclear if, when, and for what reason someone will be banned. People get banned all the time with little explanation or explanations that make no sense or are inconsistent. There is no guidance from Twitter on what behavior or content or whatever will get you banned. Why is some rando who never worked at Twitter explaining why Twitter bans users?

And how does Yishan know why Twitter bans people? And why should we trust that he knows? As far as I can tell, bans are almost completely random because they are enacted by random low-wage contract workers in a foreign country with a weak grasp of English and a poor understanding of Twitter's content policy (if there even is one).

Unlike what Yishan claims, it doesn't seem to me like Twitter cares at all about how pleasant an experience using Twitter is, only that its users remain addicted to outrage and calling-out others, which is why most Twitter power-users refer to it as a "hellsite".

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