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American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

economist.com

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Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#721

Post by pmonks »

light_hue_1 wrote: post #573
pmonks wrote: post #549

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point is that he’ll be surrounded by super smart people giving him real challenges at many schools beyond the ones you’ve listed.

There is a massive gap between top schools and middle schools in terms of the quality of education, the connections you make, and the opportunities you get. The density of smart people is far higher at those top schools he mentioned. Downplaying that doesn't do anything for anyone.

Sure, but he’s fixated on ~1% of the “top schools”, and seems closed to the possibility that the other 99% will be just as good (and in some cases better) for his son than that list.

That’s before we even unpack your claim that there’s a clear line between “top” and “middle” schools. I see it as more of a spectrum myself, ignoring “brand recognition” (which is a mostly meaningless metric).

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#722

Post by PM_me_your_math »

mythhouse wrote: post #577
RigelKentaurus wrote: post #437

Indian-American father here, living in the Bay Area. My wife and I came to this country with a few hundred dollars between us and have worked hard to reach where we’re at. We're far from privileged. I am 100% against affirmative action on the basis of race. I think there should be some measure of AA on the basis of economic status. It's quite personal for me this year. My 17-year old is applying to universities to st…

Quoted post unavailable.

"What does it matter how much money was in your pockets."

You can't buy food, housing, or pay utilities with your diploma. You need money to pay for things.

>getting that opportunity is a privilege that was denied to many.

Is it though? There are people who lived dirt-poor lives but managed to do a complete 180.

The whole concept of "privilege" is really just making excuses for why you can't do something about a problem.

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#723

Post by Izkata »

ameister14 wrote: post #368
daxelrod wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My associations are mostly neutral. It can even be positive in certain contexts, like "It was a privilege to meet him".

Even then, it's not entirely positive, is it? It's essentially saying 'It was an honor to meet him;' that could mean that you were undeserving, or simply that it was something unusual that most people didn't get to do; if it were common, it wouldn't be a privilege, would it? In the thread's context, usually it's associated with not granting the privilege to someone else, as well - you have a privilege that others do…

> It's essentially saying

> In the thread's context

> but I don't really believe that 'white privilege' is intended as a positive

It's not. Within the context of CRT it has a pretty tight definition: "undeserved benefits"

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#724

Post by pmonks »

mitthrowaway2 wrote: post #582
RigelKentaurus wrote: post #544

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not disagreeing with you at all. I know he will get a fantastic education at most schools. But he truly is a special kid who gets inspired by super smart people and thrives on challenges, and will do better at Cal, Caltech, Harvey Mudd etc. We're not looking at non-STEM schools and Ivies -- I guess they don't want us and we don't want them.

Just one anecdote but, FWIW, I found that my peers at UBC were significantly smarter and harder-working than my peers at MIT. Many schools have honours programs or especially challenging degree programs, which will be filled with excellent and ambitious students, even if that school is not an ivy league.

A (perhaps funny) anecdote of my own: I had just started as product manager for a remote engineering team, and it had been briefly mentioned in passing that one member of the team was an intern from UBC. I quickly got a feel for the work ethic and output of the team members (and they were generally great), and just jumped to the conclusion of who the intern was.

Fast forward to the first time I meet them all in person, and I say to who I thought was the intern something like “how have you enjoyed your internship?”. Cue horrified looks, and my engineering manager counterpart swiftly moving in to smooth things over. Turns out the worst performing, least engaged engineer on the team was an FTE, and the UBC intern wasn’t even remotely who I thought it was (they were awesome)!

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#725

Post by dsfyu404ed »

favorited wrote: post #196

I've always loved how succinctly LBJ put it: "If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."

LBJ notably makes no distinction between looking down with sympathy or looking down with disdain. And as much as I hate him (actually, I really hate Kennedy more, LBJ got dealt a shit hand) I think that so long as the discussion is constrained to the purposes of getting people to empty their wallets that detail can safely be omitted.

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#726

Post by randomsearch »

mythhouse wrote: post #577
RigelKentaurus wrote: post #437

Indian-American father here, living in the Bay Area. My wife and I came to this country with a few hundred dollars between us and have worked hard to reach where we’re at. We're far from privileged. I am 100% against affirmative action on the basis of race. I think there should be some measure of AA on the basis of economic status. It's quite personal for me this year. My 17-year old is applying to universities to st…

Quoted post unavailable.

Never assume you know how easy or hard someone’s life has been. You know nothing about an individual a priori.

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#727

Post by x86_64Ubuntu »

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #725
favorited wrote: post #196

I've always loved how succinctly LBJ put it: "If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."

LBJ notably makes no distinction between looking down with sympathy or looking down with disdain. And as much as I hate him (actually, I really hate Kennedy more, LBJ got dealt a shit hand) I think that so long as the discussion is constrained to the purposes of getting people to empty their wallets that detail can safely be omitted.

No one thinks that the segregationists of LBJs era were looking down in sympathy.

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#728

Post by BurningFrog »

notch656a wrote: post #454
BurningFrog wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why American Samoa prefers to remain a territory. They don't want to end up like Hawaii.

Hawaii's housing law that allows historically disadvantaged outsiders like the US-naturalized Filipinos who came in as cheap farm labor to actually OWN land are why half my family even has their own meager slice of property today. Under American Samoan rules non-native minorities like blacks and filipinos are in effect excluded from property ownership rights of nearly all of American Samoa. I can't believe people her…

I was describing the motivation, not supporting it.

But sure, I can understand why a nation wants to preserve some of its self determination, rather than become a remote province with a 75% foreign population.

I can also understand the plight of the local foreign underclass.

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#729

Post by [deleted] »

RigelKentaurus wrote: post #437

Indian-American father here, living in the Bay Area. My wife and I came to this country with a few hundred dollars between us and have worked hard to reach where we’re at. We're far from privileged. I am 100% against affirmative action on the basis of race. I think there should be some measure of AA on the basis of economic status. It's quite personal for me this year. My 17-year old is applying to universities to st…

[deleted]

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#730

Post by prottog »

erenyeager wrote: post #715
rayiner wrote: post #613

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When the Supreme Court strikes down legalized discrimination against asians, I hope you remember who put those judges there. Politics is about people voting in their self interest. If you're Asian, that calculus is simple. Trump might be boorish and say mean things, but his side wants to maintain a system that has worked extraordinarily well for Asians. Poor Asian kids have more than double the income mobility of poo…

Quoted post unavailable.

> Most of the geographical US has places where non-white people basically feel not welcome.

I'm a visibly non-white immigrant who has lived in a few different states and driven through most, including some very remote areas. I currently live in a Deep South state. I have not felt unwelcome anywhere in this country, nor have I felt more welcome in stereotypically liberal areas compared to stereotypically conservative areas.

No doubt pockets of genuine racism exists, but both at a population level or square miles of land level, such pockets are in the tiny minority. I fear you are exaggerating the level of antipathy against non-white people amongst the so-called "Trump-voting types".

Demand for racism in this country greatly outstrips the supply of it.

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