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The case for JPEG XL

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Re: The case for JPEG XL

#31
post #18
post #3

Browser support: - JPEG XL: none - HEIF: none - AVIF: all but Edge - WebP: all

I wonder what is the Mozilla's position on JPEG XL.

Mozilla is one of the founding members of AoM backing AVIF/AV1. They're shipping AVIF support enlabled.

The JPEG-XL bug hasn't received any news or updates for at least a year now and the support is disabled on all stable builds (meaning: you can't even enable it with a flag since it's not compiled in). You can enable a flag on nightlies.

Re: The case for JPEG XL

#32
post #7

As simplistic as it may sound but Google probably removed it mostly because it's a chunk of c++ that they don't want around. I'm the last person to usually endorse a rewrite but in this case maybe they should consider a Rust port so browsers feel more comfortable including this. The point of an image format is to be adopted by everyone.. it's kind of beneficial if you make that usecase as attractive as possible. Pers…

Isn't that why they're creating Carbon?

Re: The case for JPEG XL

#33
post #18
post #3

Browser support: - JPEG XL: none - HEIF: none - AVIF: all but Edge - WebP: all

I wonder what is the Mozilla's position on JPEG XL.

Mozilla's engineers are enthusiastic about JPEG XL, but their directors less so. Mozilla's director a year ago: "I'm locking this conversation as it has passed the new information stage." This is not a great position, as loads of new information about human rater studies has been obtained, the codecs have advanced further significantly, the ecosystems are developing, industry is developing their stance, and even new objective metrics to evaluate codecs have been developed.

I'd like to highlight two things there:

My arguments for JPEG XL: https://github.com/mozilla/standards-positions/issues/522#is... -- it comes with links to 3rd party evidence of the somewhat outrageous but correct claims.

Jon's arguments for JPEG XL: https://github.com/mozilla/standards-positions/issues/522#is...

Re: The case for JPEG XL

#34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a valid argument, but which of the contenders are using Rust or similar security minded languages? WebP appears to be written in C++, perhaps because underlying video codec is also written in C++…

We wrote WebP in C -- in the creative phase of codec and format development I kept it in C++, the feasibility proto was initially launched in C++ (perhaps 0.2 version of the lossless coding, late 2011), but I ported it to C a few months after that and handed it over to the WebP production team (early 2012) who kept making improvements like streaming decoding

My bad, I glanced at “compiling” page and assumed c++ for some reason.

[0] https://developers.google.com/speed/webp/docs/compiling

Re: The case for JPEG XL

#35
post #22
post #3

Browser support: - JPEG XL: none - HEIF: none - AVIF: all but Edge - WebP: all

I'd have expected HEIF to be implemented in Safari, at the very least mobile Safari. Did Apple really not include their native image format on recent iPhones?

HEIF is the default format for the iOS Camera app and has been since at least 2018.

Re: The case for JPEG XL

#36
I'm not really familiar with the space, but the article kind of suggests another reason I could imagine not supporting JPEG XL: if it has the long list of advantages described, then how much of a single thing is it? Do you have to implement every feature in order to be considered supporting JPEG XL? Or would a browser implementing from scratch run the risk of splitting what the format means?

I don't think having an existing library that all browsers could "just use" is a good argument. That just means that the implementation is the specification, no matter what the official spec says.

Note that I'm not saying that this is a problem or that JPEG XL shouldn't be supported. I just don't know what the real situation is, and this article smelled a little like it might be sweeping some things under the rug. (And for the other other side, the justification in the bug also seemed lacking.) Anyone know more?

Re: The case for JPEG XL

#37
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd have expected HEIF to be implemented in Safari, at the very least mobile Safari. Did Apple really not include their native image format on recent iPhones?

HEIF is the default format for the iOS Camera app and has been since at least 2018.

Yes, exactly. So it's pretty much the standard image format on the iPhone.

So I was wondering if/why it's not also part of Safari.

Re: The case for JPEG XL

#38
I had regarded the lossless re-compression as an interesting parlor trick, but I get it now.

Coincidentally today I was testing how much we can shrink our archived videos. We have lots of videos recorded with the Intel hardware encoder in H264, so not even the state of the art of H264. I figured: pop it into handbrake, change the codec to H265 (X.265), and boom 30%+ reduction. No, the H265 file got 3X larger. Well the default handbrake quality might be higher than the original video, and now it's going to some spend bits trying to encode the artifacts in the source video, while adding artifacts of its own. Sure you can find a happy medium where the quality won't be too much worse and you reduce the file size in most cases. But it sure would be nice to be able to losslessly recompress those videos!

Re: The case for JPEG XL

#39

Beautifully written article -- I couldn't agree more. From my personal point of view the biggest impact are: 1) e-commerce textures such as cloths are more faitfully represented -- more trust in e-commerce, more revenue 2) more equity for selfies, people-of-color skin is better represented in JPEG XL, selfies in general look more people like with less smoothing of skin performed at compression stage -- I'm a great fr…

> people-of-color skin is better represented in JPEG XL

wait what? What is this woodoo and why it itsn't the case for other image formats in which encodings color in RGB?

Re: The case for JPEG XL

#40
Was there any momentum getting JPEG XL approved in browsers (not behind a flag) before Google decided not to support it? I barely heard about it at all. Perhaps if Google wants to create developer enthusiasm for some new feature they want to implement, they should first announce they're NOT going to be implementing said feature, then when the inevitable backlash happens, very publicly backtrack.
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