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American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

economist.com

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Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#571

Post by runako »

duvenaud wrote: post #305
nemothekid wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe the Ivies will move to a similar system in the wake of the current SCOTUS case. AFAICT, the ivies don't have a problem with filling their graduating class. I believe a place like Harvard even considering the top 10% of students would increase the applicant pool. I'm reciting these numbers from memory, but apparently the size of the incoming class at Harvard is roughly 2,000 students, but there are ~5,000 appl…

> While I believe there is belief that Harvard is accepting C-students over asians A+ students I think the reality is much closer; they are rejecting students with perfect scores and accepting students who scored in the 98th percentile. You don't need to speculate, the gap is more like 99th vs 93rd percentile: "Asian-Americans admitted to Harvard earned an average SAT score of 767 across all sections. ... African-Ame…

> You don't need to speculate, the gap is more like 99th vs 93rd percentile:

This is easily the gap between a single individual on two different test days. Which is another way of saying that the difference is not useful in assembling a university's incoming class. Once you get above a certain level, the tests decrease in utility to categorize individuals into tiers. Once you get to a certain level of capability, you're broadly talking about smart people who can graduate from your university. Once you've cleared that bar, there's less utility in determining how far over the bar an individual goes versus looking at other ways (which are not measured on a test) in which an individual can add to their campus, class, and the world.

(Source: worked in SAT/ACT/GMAT test prep. Have administered hundreds of sample tests in whole and in parts.)

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#572

Post by RigelKentaurus »

the_cat_kittles wrote: post #567
RigelKentaurus wrote: post #437

Indian-American father here, living in the Bay Area. My wife and I came to this country with a few hundred dollars between us and have worked hard to reach where we’re at. We're far from privileged. I am 100% against affirmative action on the basis of race. I think there should be some measure of AA on the basis of economic status. It's quite personal for me this year. My 17-year old is applying to universities to st…

its all about you and your son apparently?

You're totally missing the point. If it's happening to me, it's happening to many thousands of other families too, and it's not OK.

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#573

Post by light_hue_1 »

pmonks wrote: post #549
RigelKentaurus wrote: post #544

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not disagreeing with you at all. I know he will get a fantastic education at most schools. But he truly is a special kid who gets inspired by super smart people and thrives on challenges, and will do better at Cal, Caltech, Harvey Mudd etc. We're not looking at non-STEM schools and Ivies -- I guess they don't want us and we don't want them.

My point is that he’ll be surrounded by super smart people giving him real challenges at many schools beyond the ones you’ve listed.

There is a massive gap between top schools and middle schools in terms of the quality of education, the connections you make, and the opportunities you get. The density of smart people is far higher at those top schools he mentioned.

Downplaying that doesn't do anything for anyone.

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#574

Post by latency-guy2 »

the_cat_kittles wrote: post #567
RigelKentaurus wrote: post #437

Indian-American father here, living in the Bay Area. My wife and I came to this country with a few hundred dollars between us and have worked hard to reach where we’re at. We're far from privileged. I am 100% against affirmative action on the basis of race. I think there should be some measure of AA on the basis of economic status. It's quite personal for me this year. My 17-year old is applying to universities to st…

its all about you and your son apparently?

Why not? His son appears to have put forth the effort and sacrificed plenty, far more than 99% of students, and looks like his son has the smarts and grit for it as well. This should be about these people in this world.

Why are you making it out like it isn't? This is quite literally THE subject. Why is his son being penalized for his skin color?

There is no logical stance for Affirmative Action as it currently stands without admitting that you are for racist policies.

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#575

Post by bushbaba »

Manuel_D wrote: post #293
duvenaud wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a STEM academic, I can say that I've never seen or heard of ongoing AA for men in any STEM program in any institution whose policies I'm acquainted with. So it seems to me to be misleading to claim, or at least hard to believe, that very many men in college have been beneficiaries of AA for men.

For technology focused universities, women usually have higher admission rates than men: https://www.collegetransitions.com/blog/can-your-gender-give...

My Alma matter literally does everything in their power to boost female admits. It’s grown from 1:4 to roughly 1:3 after a decade of new majors, new scholarships, lower admission scores. This all comes at the cost of well qualified Asian and white males.

Multiple studies found White woman are the biggest benefactors of affirmative action.

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#576

Post by runako »

coyotespike wrote: post #187

Here in Texas, any student from the top 10% of their high school is guaranteed a place at the flagship University of Texas at Austin. This is widely understood to be a form of affirmative action. Naturally, high schools in underprivileged areas - rural or urban - will produce students who are nowhere nearly as prepared as students from elite or wealthy schools. We ignore that difference as a policy matter. Top 10% is…

> Here in Texas, any student from the top 10% of their high school is guaranteed a place at the flagship University of Texas at Austin.

> high schools in underprivileged areas - rural or urban - will produce students who are nowhere nearly as prepared as students from elite or wealthy schools.

The most cynical read of the Texas policy is that it is an end-around of the SCOTUS ruling that relies on continued, widespread school segregation in Texas.

If Texas schools were not segregated by race and wealth, this policy would not have the result of producing the diverse classes that the University of Texas system desires. The university system depends on the unfairness of the K-12 system to achieve its narrow set of policy goals.

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#577

Post by mythhouse »

RigelKentaurus wrote: post #437

Indian-American father here, living in the Bay Area. My wife and I came to this country with a few hundred dollars between us and have worked hard to reach where we’re at. We're far from privileged. I am 100% against affirmative action on the basis of race. I think there should be some measure of AA on the basis of economic status. It's quite personal for me this year. My 17-year old is applying to universities to st…

No post body was provided.

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#578

Post by Thorrez »

imgabe wrote: post #434
michaelt wrote: post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not in STEM departments, no. Why would you run a pro-male affirmative action programme in a department where men were already over-represented? But there's affirmative action for men in nursing, teaching, social studies, and similar female-dominated departments. There are active campaigns to recruit more male nurses - and male teachers are more likely to be promoted. I also know first-hand that vocational ballet scho…

Isn't the goal of a nursing school to provide the best possible nurses to the healthcare industry? If we assume that: Whatever merit based metrics the school uses to determine admission are predictive of eventual performance and that men are admitted with lower performance on these metrics than some women Then removing the affirmative action should result in the school graduating nurses who perform better, right? Why…

Some patients might prefer a doctor/nurse of the same gender.

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#579

Post by braingenious »

I find the premise of this article pretty humorous. It’s always a neat little magic trick to tell people that two bad things can’t exist at the same time.

“The solution to classism is to ignore racism! No don’t ask why I feel that way or how I got to that conclusion!”

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#580

Post by shaklee3 »

RigelKentaurus wrote: post #529
zhoujianfu wrote: post #518

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just wanna say… apply to Harvey Mudd! Way better than those ivies anyway!

We're definitely applying there! Someone asked why he has to apply to elite STEM schools -- he will get a great education anywhere. That may be true, but he's one of those kids who love to be surrounded by people smarter than him and be inspired by them. It's weird but the harder the class, the more fun he seems to have. He wants to be challenged in college. He will thrive at Mudd.

the problem with HM is the population is so small that it's insignificant compared to the other schools. it's much more impacted, so even if their numbers align more with what you want, there are only a few hundred spots
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